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sizing solar panel to recharge 1 12 volt battery

Hi, I am hoping that someone in this group can give me a web site where I can find solar panels and information that will be used to charge a marine battery.
I have just rented a barn that no longer has electricity in it. I purchased a 12 volt marine battery with 625 CCA's and installed 3ea 50 watt 12 volt light bulbs.
I am assuming that the batteries ratting will allow me to run about 30 minutes a day for a month before recharging. I doubt that I use all three lights at one time. More like one or two.
I figured that each bulb would consume 4 amps while on. I know quite a load for a battery. I have read that the rating on a battery is usually calculated for a current drain over approx 20 hours.
Am I correct that a 625 Amp battery should be able to supply approx 30 amps for 20 hours?
Also anyone know of an inexpensive way to monitor the battery condition? Would a volt meter show when it is time to recharge? At what voltage is it time? Also, how big of a solar panel (output watts) would I require? Is there a diode that is required to prevent the battery from discharging on cloudy days?
All and any help would be appreciated. Even a site where I can just get information would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. Steve

sizing solar panel to recharge 1 12 volt battery

Hi Steve;
BlueEyes wrote:

I am hoping that someone in this group can give me a web site where I can find solar panels and information that will be used to charge a marine battery.
I have just rented a barn that no longer has electricity in it.I purchased a 12 volt marine battery with 625 CCA's and installed 3ea 50 watt 12 volt light bulbs.
I am assuming that the batteries ratting will allow me to run about 30 minutes a day for a month before recharging. I doubt that I use all three lights at one time. More like one or two.
I figured that each bulb would consume 4 amps while on. I know quite a load for a battery. I have read that the rating on a battery is usually calculated for a current drain over approx 20 hours.
Am I correct that a 625 Amp battery should be able to supply approx 30 amps for 20 hours?

No, CCA or Cold Cranking Amps is a rating for the ability to start an engine.
What you need to know is the Ahr or amp hour rating. Generally the Ahr rating is measured at the 20 hour rate.
Your battery, complete guess here, probably in the 100 Ahr to 200 Ahr range.

Also anyone know of an inexpensive way to monitor the battery condition? Would a volt meter show when it is time to recharge? At what voltage is it time? Also, how big of a solar panel (output watts) would I require? Is there a diode that is required to prevent the battery from discharging on cloudy days?
All and any help would be appreciated. Even a site where I can just get information would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. Steve

Duane
-- Home of the $35 Solar Tracker Receiver http://www.redrok.com/led3xassm.htm [*] Powered by \ \ \ //| Thermonuclear Solar Energy from the Sun / | Energy (the SUN) \ \ \ / / | Red Rock Energy \ \ / / | Duane C. Johnson Designer \ \ / \ / | 1825 Florence St Heliostat,Control,& Mounts | White Bear Lake, Minnesota === \ / \ | USA 55110-3364 === \ | (651)426-4766 use Courier New Font \ | redrok@redrok.com (my email: address) \ | http://www.redrok.com (Web site) ===

sizing solar panel to recharge 1 12 volt battery

BlueEyes wrote:

Hi, I am hoping that someone in this group can give me a web site where I can find solar panels and information that will be used to charge a marine battery.
I have just rented a barn that no longer has electricity in it. I purchased a 12 volt marine battery with 625 CCA's and installed 3ea 50 watt 12 volt light bulbs.

Marine battery, as used for trolling motors? Or marine battery as built with stonger plates to take the pounding of a marine environment? The reason I ask is that trolling motor batteries typically have an AmpHour rating over a number of hours, like 90 AH 175 minutes (read that as - the dreaming capacity of the battery is a TOTAL of 90 amp hours IF you discharge it evenly over 175 minutes.)

I am assuming that the batteries ratting will allow me to run about 30 minutes a day for a month before recharging.

You assume wrong, for a couple of reasons. Lead-acid wet cell batteries do not like to be left in a discharged state for any length of time. There are chemical reactions that occur that will reduce the capacity of the battery permanently. A battery is ideally used and then immediately recharged. In practice, a battery that is discharged up to about 20% is fine for a week (this is very rough rule-of-thumb and will undoubtedly spark discussion.)
Secondly, a group 27 marine battery typically has a store rating of about 100 amphours. (You won't find one rated more than 120 amphours) De-rate that by at least 10% to get a realistic rating, then de-rate it another 20% so that you don't design your system with a greater than 80% discharge, which will kill a battery in short order. That gives you a MAX of 70 amphours that you should ever take out of the battery. If you want the battery to last for the rated 6 years or more, only take out a maximum of 50 amphours.
150 watts / 12 volts = 12.5 amps / 30 minutes > 25 Amphours. You have 50 amphours usable capacity. That gives two days of use if all three bulbs run 30 minutes each day. You can go longer than that, as long as three or four days, and it will seem fine for a while, but within a month, you'll have damaged the battery beyond saving.

I doubt that I use all three lights at one time. More like one or two.
I figured that each bulb would consume 4 amps while on.

Slightly more, and if you have a long wire run to the lights, even a little more than that.

I know quite a load for a battery. I have read that the rating on a battery is usually calculated for a current drain over approx 20 hours.

Sort of. Battery manufacturers who want to make their batteries seem more powerful use a C20 rating, which provides more juice out of a battery than a C10 or C5 rating, due to the Peukert effect.

Am I correct that a 625 Amp battery should be able to supply approx 30 amps for 20 hours?

If you had a battery that large, and wanted to destroy it with continued usage, yes. If you wanted to do it with marine batteries, and make them last, 10 or 12 of them in parallel should do the job.

Also anyone know of an inexpensive way to monitor the battery condition?

Specific gravity meter. Go to an auto parts store or bigbox store and pick one up for less than $5. Battery state-of-charge can be measured with a voltmeter, but unless you know how to compensate for a few factors, the readings can be more decptive than helpful.

Would a volt meter show when it is time to recharge?

Yes, see above.

At what voltage is it time?

It primarily depends on a combination of the load, any charging current present, temperature, battery capacity, whether the battery has been used recently, and time since the last charge.

Also, how big of a solar panel (output watts) would I require? Is there a diode that is required to prevent the battery from discharging on cloudy days?

The diode is usually built-in. The size solar panel you would need is dependent on the site. You also need a solar charge controller. Off the cuff, about 200 watts of output would probably let you do on a daily basis what you first described

All and any help would be appreciated. Even a site where I can just get information would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. Steve

Totalling it up,another $120 for a couple more batteries to get through a cloudy period, $700 for solar panels, $100 for a charge controller, amazing how fast dreams of cheap solar power get crushed, huh? Put your single battery on a handtruck, pull it to the barn at night, pull it back with you and plug it into a smart charger connected to grid power and charge it for the next night, and you should be fine. Put the lights on the handtruck and you have a really big flashlight. :-)
Cut down the amount of amphours you use and pray for sun, and you _might_ get away with a single 75 to 100 watt panel. Remember that during the winter there is less sun and you need more lights. In the summer there is more sun and you need less lights.
For your situation, a better solution might be a rechargable camping lantern with a florescent lamp. NiMH batteries take much more abuse and are lighter.

sizing solar panel to recharge 1 12 volt battery

"Harry Chickpea" wrote in message

Totalling it up,another $120 for a couple more batteries to get through a cloudy period, $700 for solar panels, $100 for a charge controller, amazing how fast dreams of cheap solar power get crushed, huh?

Or quadruple the efficiency of your lighting and greatly reduce the size of the system you need to power it.
Buy these lamps: http://tinyurl.com/cw5mx and you will have the same amount of light as before, but only draw one amp each. (be sure to hook them up with + to the tip)
Now you can get by (at least for a while) with the battery you already have and perhaps 50 to 75 watts of solar panel.
You will still need a controller. Here is a good one: http://www.affordable-solar.com/80.html
Good Luck; Vaughn

sizing solar panel to recharge 1 12 volt battery

hchickpeaREMOVEME@hotmail.com (Harry Chickpea) wrote:

150 watts / 12 volts = 12.5 amps / 30 minutes > 25 Amphours.

<doH!> mybad. I just re-read what I wrote. If you are using 12.5 amps for 30 minutes, you are using 6.25 amphours, not 25 amphours. I _thought_ the capacity seemed way smaller than it should be. That is what I get for responding before coffee.
With 50 amphours available, that would mean pulling the battery and recharging once a week. A single panel and charge controller would be more than adequate. Carry on.

sizing solar panel to recharge 1 12 volt battery

On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 14:59:34 GMT, hchickpeaREMOVEME@hotmail.com (Harry Chickpea) wrote:

I figured that each bulb would consume 4 amps while on.
Slightly more, and if you have a long wire run to the lights, even a little more than that.

Why would having a long wire run cause the bulbs to draw more current?

sizing solar panel to recharge 1 12 volt battery

Steve Cothran wrote:

On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 14:59:34 GMT, hchickpeaREMOVEME@hotmail.com (Harry Chickpea) wrote:

I figured that each bulb would consume 4 amps while on.
Slightly more, and if you have a long wire run to the lights, even a little more than that.

Why would having a long wire run cause the bulbs to draw more current?

The wire will waste power as heat if it's not sized properly.
-- Steve Spence Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html

sizing solar panel to recharge 1 12 volt battery

Thank you all for the information. I still have to figure out what I want to do. It looks as if I jumped into this too soon. I do have everything hooked up and waiting till I need to go over there at night. It looks like one bulb at a time, and recharging every two weeks.
What specific gravity is time to recharge? Will it hurt the battery to sit and not be used if it is fully charged? Say for several months? I thank everyone again for the help. Steve

sizing solar panel to recharge 1 12 volt battery

"BlueEyes" wrote in message

Will it hurt the battery to sit and not be used if it is fully charged? Say for several months? In general, no. BUT every battery self-discharges at a rate that depends on

the chemistry of the battery, its condition, and the ambient temperature. A full battery will eventually become a discharged battery and then (from there) it will quickly go bad. It is better to leave an unused battery on a "float charger" that is specially made just for that job. Here is a very good one: http://batterytender.com/default.php?cPath=11_3 but Harbor freight also sells one much cheaper http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=42292 that seems to work just fine for my father (be aware of the questionable quality of the stuff they sell) Do NOT leave a battery indefinately on one of those cheap "trickle chargers", it will eventually overcharge your battery to death. Take it from a guy who has ruined way too many batteries that way before he finally learned!
Vaughn

I thank everyone again for the help. Steve

sizing solar panel to recharge 1 12 volt battery

Panel, charge controler, marine deep cycle battery, small inverter, and high efficiency 110V light bulbs. Good for a couple of hours a day, and the inverter will sut down when battery does happen to get too low.
You have most of the pieces, the rest is cheap and will really improve usability.
surfnturf
"BlueEyes" wrote in message

Thank you all for the information. I still have to figure out what I want to do. It looks as if I jumped into this too soon. I do have everything hooked up and waiting till I need to go over there at night. It looks like one bulb at a time, and recharging every two weeks.
What specific gravity is time to recharge? Will it hurt the battery to sit and not be used if it is fully charged? Say for several months? I thank everyone again for the help. Steve

sizing solar panel to recharge 1 12 volt battery

BlueEyes wrote:

Thank you all for the information. I still have to figure out what I want to do. It looks as if I jumped into this too soon. I do have everything hooked up and waiting till I need to go over there at night. It looks like one bulb at a time, and recharging every two weeks.
What specific gravity is time to recharge?

First, check and record the SG of the battery when fully charged. It should be about 1.265, but it can vary.
It is good to recharge at about 1.225 In general, recharge immediately when the battery drops below 1.20 Don't ever let it get below 1.15 If the temperatures are cold, you'll need to increase these last two figures.

Will it hurt the battery to sit and not be used if it is fully charged?

Yes and no.

Say for several months?

That would not be good.
This isn't the whole story, but close enough to explain-
The active part of the electrode is a semi-crystalline sponge lead. Think of the sanding sponges you can buy at a hardware store as a bigger example of the type of structure. The sponge is soaked with sulfuric acid. When a battery discharges, the sponge becomes covered with little bits of lead sulfate. The conversion from lead and sulfuric acid to lead sulfate is what "creates" or "releases" the electricity. The deposited lead sulfate can form crystals of its own by forming into masses; bonding to itself in an organized pattern that is very strong. Those growing crystals can block up the outer pores of the sponge, reducing the total surface area that the acid can reach and work with, and therefor the capacity of the cell. This is called "necking." The crystals have a harder time reverting back into lead and sulfuric acid in the recharge process than simple small lead sulfate particles. A discharged or partly discharged battery is more likely to create large crystals when left to sit (ever make rock candy out of a string and a sugar solution?). The longer the time, the larger the crystals. Recharge a battery immediately, and the crystals don't get a chance to form. Is a week worse than a day? Yes. Is two weeks between charges worse than one week? Yes. Is lugging a battery to a charger a pain? Yes. You have to decide your usage pattern.
If you add even a small solar panel, during the times that the battery is recharging it effectively cannot form or increase the size of any crystals. If the panel is powerful enough to recharge the battery to "full" every day, so much the better. If it overcharges, there are other problems you'll be experiencing. That is why you need a charge controller.
The whole lead-acid battery concept is a balancing act of many different factors. Get way out of balance with one, and the energy storage quickly falls off or the battery destroys itself. Marine batteries are more vulnerable to problems than industrial deep-discharge batteries, but are not as heavy or as bulky, or as expensive. As long as you understand the trade-offs of lead-acid wet cells and act accordingly, you can expect reasonable service out of your system.
PS -
We ALL jump in "too soon." It is the only way to get a real feel for the concepts and limitations. Figure your first battery as a $50 textbook AND a source of stored power and it won't seem as bad. You are wise to ask questions now.


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