Conclusion: Honda eu2000i and home furnaces

== The final conclusiion to the on-going saga ==

Did you try the toroid iron on the hot for a filter as somebody suggested they had success with?

Actually, I did some more experimenting tonight, and I concluded that there is only 3 things that work:
1) Isolate the ground from the furnace, and let it float.
2) Tie neutral to ground at the generater recepitcal.
3) Tie neutral to ground at the generator recepticle with a .1uf capicator. (ground to hot doesn't work)
Things I've tried:
- Ground the generator to: a) breaker box, b) to Earth.
- EMI/RFI filters galore: common mode, differential, both. (store bought, home brew, and all imaginable combinations).
Observations:
At idle, and nothing pluged it, if I connect Neutral to ground at the generator, I get ever so slight sparking when I drag the neutral lead over the ground lead. It is not enough to light a C7 night light bulb. So I then connected neutral to ground (at the generator) thru a larger Neon bulb, and it lights it at maybe 1/4 - 1/3 brightness.
The final fix:
Since the 2 "paralell operation" connectors are actually standard bananna plug sockets, and these paralell operation bananna sockets are connected directly to the duplex recepticles, I made a 3-inch lead out of rubber test-lead wire, connected one end to the ground screw with a crimp-on terminal, and the other end with a male bananna plug, and pluged it in the left most bananna socket for "paralell operation". I also labeled the 2 bananna jacks on the generator as "N" (neutral) on the left, and "L" (hot) on the right. Its clean, easy to do, looks good, temporary, and any one can do it since it requires no soldering. You can get the solderless bananna plus at Radio Shack: http://www.radioshack.com/sm-solderless-banana-plugs--pi-2102839.html Crimp terminal for the ground screw can be bought from the local autoparts store. Use any kind of wire.
Summary: Connect left-lost jack for parallel operation to the ground screw on the front of the generator. This bonds neutral to ground at the generator, and is "code" in a lot of places.

Mr Wizzard wrote:

== The final conclusiion to the on-going saga ==
Did you try the toroid iron on the hot for a filter as somebody suggested they had success with?
Actually, I did some more experimenting tonight, and I concluded that there is only 3 things that work:
1) Isolate the ground from the furnace, and let it float.
2) Tie neutral to ground at the generater recepitcal.
3) Tie neutral to ground at the generator recepticle with a .1uf capicator. (ground to hot doesn't work)
Things I've tried:
- Ground the generator to: a) breaker box, b) to Earth.
- EMI/RFI filters galore: common mode, differential, both. (store bought, home brew, and all imaginable combinations).
Observations:
At idle, and nothing pluged it, if I connect Neutral to ground at the generator, I get ever so slight sparking when I drag the neutral lead over the ground lead. It is not enough to light a C7 night light bulb. So I then connected neutral to ground (at the generator) thru a larger Neon bulb, and it lights it at maybe 1/4 - 1/3 brightness.
The final fix:
Since the 2 "paralell operation" connectors are actually standard bananna plug sockets, and these paralell operation bananna sockets are connected directly to the duplex recepticles, I made a 3-inch lead out of rubber test-lead wire, connected one end to the ground screw with a crimp-on terminal, and the other end with a male bananna plug, and pluged it in the left most bananna socket for "paralell operation". I also labeled the 2 bananna jacks on the generator as "N" (neutral) on the left, and "L" (hot) on the right. Its clean, easy to do, looks good, temporary, and any one can do it since it requires no soldering. You can get the solderless bananna plus at Radio Shack: http://www.radioshack.com/sm-solderless-banana-plugs--pi-2102839.html Crimp terminal for the ground screw can be bought from the local autoparts store. Use any kind of wire.
Summary: Connect left-lost jack for parallel operation to the ground screw on the front of the generator. This bonds neutral to ground at the generator, and is "code" in a lot of places.
Please advise what type of plug you are running the power from on the

generator and how you are connecting it to the furnace. -- Tom Horne
-- Tom Horne
Well we aren't no thin blue heroes and yet we aren't no blackguards to. We're just working men and woman most remarkable like you.

"Thomas D. Horne, FF EMT" wrote in message

Mr Wizzard wrote: == The final conclusiion to the on-going saga ==
Did you try the toroid iron on the hot for a filter as somebody suggested they had success with?
Actually, I did some more experimenting tonight, and I concluded that there is only 3 things that work:
1) Isolate the ground from the furnace, and let it float.
2) Tie neutral to ground at the generater recepitcal.
3) Tie neutral to ground at the generator recepticle with a .1uf capicator. (ground to hot doesn't work)
Things I've tried:
- Ground the generator to: a) breaker box, b) to Earth.
- EMI/RFI filters galore: common mode, differential, both. (store bought, home brew, and all imaginable combinations).
Observations:
At idle, and nothing pluged it, if I connect Neutral to ground at the generator, I get ever so slight sparking when I drag the neutral lead over the ground lead. It is not enough to light a C7 night light bulb. So I then connected neutral to ground (at the generator) thru a larger Neon bulb, and it lights it at maybe 1/4 - 1/3 brightness.
The final fix:
Since the 2 "paralell operation" connectors are actually standard bananna plug sockets, and these paralell operation bananna sockets are connected directly to the duplex recepticles, I made a 3-inch lead out of rubber test-lead wire, connected one end to the ground screw with a crimp-on terminal, and the other end with a male bananna plug, and pluged it in the left most bananna socket for "paralell operation". I also labeled the 2 bananna jacks on the generator as "N" (neutral) on the left, and "L" (hot) on the right. Its clean, easy to do, looks good, temporary, and any one can do it since it requires no soldering. You can get the solderless bananna plus at Radio Shack: http://www.radioshack.com/sm-solderless-banana-plugs--pi-2102839.html Crimp terminal for the ground screw can be bought from the local autoparts store. Use any kind of wire.
Summary: Connect left-lost jack for parallel operation to the ground screw on the front of the generator. This bonds neutral to ground at the generator, and is "code" in a lot of places.
Please advise what type of plug you are running the power from on the generator and how you are connecting it to the furnace.

Sure. My setup is simple as pie (I like simple) First off, my natural gas home furnace was originally hard-wired to a junction box in the wall in the garage with "BX" - that corogated metal jacketed cable. So I hacked it off right there at the junction box, and chnaged out the face-plate of the junction box to a be a single standard 3-prong recepticle. (I wanted just a single so that nothing else can be plugged into it, and for astectics - wanted it to look good) I believe I had to hunt down a J box cover "with" the single 3-prong recepticle already mounted to the cover - basically a iuntegrated J-box cover with a single 3-prong recepticle) And on the furnace side, simply put a 3-prong plug on the end of the BX cable. I went with a particular Bryant wire devices plug because the BX cable wouldn't fit in any other kind of plug, and most 3-prong plugs all have some sort of screw-clamp deal to grip the cable, and I didn't want to smash the end of the BX. This particular Bryant plug and a real nice rubber membrane deal on the back that auto conforms to the cable for a seal/grip. This is sort of like the plug I went with (although the one I found at the local hardware store was actually yellow, and corrosion resistant, but it looks like the same) : http://www.hubbellcatalog.com/bryant/datasheet.asp?PN=BRY5266NP&FAM=bry-straightblade&P=1002,4726,7306 If that link is too long, try this: http://tinyurl.com/7g7sh So in normal operation, the furnace is simply pluged into the wall like an ordinary househould appliance. When I want to run it on the Honda eu2000i, I simply unplug the furnace from the wall, plug it into a standard 25-foot made in China Home Depot 12-gague yellow extension cord, run that cord out under the garage door to either the driveway, corner of the house, or the front porch or where ever I decide to plop the generator. (I worry about thieft, so I try not to plop the generator down in the middle of the generator if it will run unattended for any time.
So in summary, hack off the hardwired connection to the furnace and put a plug on it and just plug it into a regular recepticle, or convert junction box to a recipticle. Most houses probably have their furnaces wired with regular Romex wire, and you can put a 3-prong plug directly on the Romex. Mine was "BX" because of a recent remodel and I put the furnace in myself and wanted it to look "indistrial-like". The furnace draws a tad over 6 Amps on startup (beacause of the hot-surface ignightor), and a little over 2 Amps while its running afterwards - about the same as a fridge. Then unplug it from the wall, and into a 25-foot extension cord, and the extension cord directly into either of the 2 rectipcles on the Honda eu2000i, and wella. (don't forget to jumper that left-most bananna plug socket to the ground screw on the front).
So I like this setup (a lot). I've been running my furnace on the generator for most of the weekend for a variety of reasons: - To break in the generator. - Get an idea of noise, and best location. - Get an idea of gas consumption. - Experiment, the novelity of it all, etc.
Overall rating: 9.5 (would be 10 if Honda would have designed an "automatic" venting gas cap) If you forget to flip the little lever on the gas cap to "on" (vent "on" ?) the generator will die after 15-20 min. (happens almost every time with me)

-- Tom Horne
-- Tom Horne
Well we aren't no thin blue heroes and yet we aren't no blackguards to. We're just working men and woman most remarkable like you.

"Mr Wizzard" wrote:

Connect left-lost jack for parallel operation to the ground screw on the front of the generator. This bonds neutral to ground at the generator, and is "code" in a lot of places.

What about a 3-prong plug with neutral and ground tied together plugged into the unused generator outlet? Then you don't need tools to select furnace operation...

"William P.N. Smith" wrote in message

"Mr Wizzard" wrote: Connect left-lost jack for parallel operation to the ground screw on the front of the generator. This bonds neutral to ground at the generator, and is "code" in a lot of places.
What about a 3-prong plug with neutral and ground tied together plugged into the unused generator outlet? Then you don't need tools to select furnace operation...

You know....I thought of just that too! Even thought of something like that teathered to the unit too. But, you need to see how I got, and how clean (and easy) it was. 3-inch piece of Belden rubber test lead wire with a spade lug on one end (with the yellow plastic part removed, crimpted, soldered, and piece of shrink tube) and a nice bananna plug on the other (pluged into the left-most bananna jack for paralell operation). This way, its out of the way, and I can use the other recepticle. Also, I can either leave the grounded bananna pig tail plugged into the neutral jack all the time, or pull it out if I want, no tools needed. I should probably publish a we page with this info since I'm sure there are lots of people wanting to power a home furnace with one of these Honda eu2000i generators (since they are becoming so pupular). But yeah, for the average, non Mr neatnic wiring engineer type, a simple dummy plug like you mention would do the trick. The only other issue would be remembering to plug in the dummy plug when breaking out the generator to fire up the furnace. Thanks for the replay, this had been a very interesting, and fun problem.

Please advise what type of plug you are running the power from on the generator and how you are connecting it to the furnace. -- Tom Horne
Well we aren't no thin blue heroes and yet we aren't no blackguards to. We're just working men and woman most remarkable like you.

Sure. My setup is simple as pie (I like simple) First off, my natural gas home furnace was originally hard-wired to a junction box in the wall in the garage with "BX" - that corrugated metal jacketed cable. So I hacked it off right there at the junction box, and changed out the face-plate of the junction box to a be a single standard 3-prong receptacle. (I wanted just a single so that nothing else can be plugged into it, and for aesthetics's - wanted it to look good) I believe I had to hunt down a J box cover "with" the single 3-prong receptacle already mounted to the cover - basically a integrated J-box cover with a single 3-prong receptacle) And on the furnace side, simply put a 3-prong plug on the end of the BX cable. I went with a particular Bryant wire devices plug because the BX cable wouldn't fit in any other kind of plug, and most 3-prong plugs all have some sort of screw-clamp deal to grip the cable, and I didn't want to smash the end of the BX. This particular Bryant plug and a real nice rubber membrane deal on the back that auto conforms to the cable for a seal/grip. This is sort of like the plug I went with (although the one I found at the local hardware store was actually yellow, and corrosion resistant, but it looks like the same) : http://www.hubbellcatalog.com/bryant/datasheet.asp?PN=BRY5266NP&FAM=bry-straightblade&P=1002,4726,7306 If that link is too long, try this: http://tinyurl.com/7g7sh So in normal operation, the furnace is simply plugged into the wall like an ordinary household appliance. When I want to run it on the Honda eu2000i, I simply unplug the furnace from the wall, plug it into a standard 25-foot made in China Home Depot 12-gage yellow extension cord, run that cord out under the garage door to either the driveway, corner of the house, or the front porch or where ever I decide to plop the generator. (I worry about theft, so I try not to plop the generator down in the middle of the generator if it will run unattended for any time.
So in summary, hack off the hardwired connection to the furnace and put a plug on it and just plug it into a regular receptacle, or convert junction box to a receptacle. Most houses probably have their furnaces wired with regular Romex wire, and you can put a 3-prong plug directly on the Romex. Mine was "BX" because of a recent remodel and I put the furnace in myself and wanted it to look "industrial-like". The furnace draws a tad over 6 Amps on startup (because of the hot-surface igniter), and a little over 2 Amps while its running afterwards - about the same as a fridge. Then unplug it from the wall, and into a 25-foot extension cord, and the extension cord directly into either of the 2 receptacles on the Honda eu2000i, and wallah. (don't forget to jumper that left-most banana plug socket to the ground screw on the front).
So I like this setup (a lot). I've been running my furnace on the generator for most of the weekend for a variety of reasons: - To break in the generator. - Get an idea of noise, and best location. - Get an idea of gas consumption. - Experiment, the novelty of it all, etc.
Overall rating: 9.5 (would be 10 if Honda would have designed an "automatic" venting gas cap) If you forget to flip the little lever on the gas cap to "on" (vent "on" ?) the generator will die after 15-20 min. (happens almost every time with me)

Let me suggest that you Install a single pole, double through, center off, switch in the raised cover to replace the original single pole switch. You then mount a box with a flanged inlet for the cord from the generator. Wire the switch so that the up position connects the homes furnace branch circuit to the furnace equipment; the center off position connects the furnace to nothing; and the down position connects the furnace equipment to the brass colored screw of the flanged inlet. The silver colored screw is connected to the splice between the branch circuit neutral and the furnace equipment neutral. The green colored screw is connected to the box via a pig tail to a grounding screw. In that way the furnace would be connected to the neutral and ground of the house wiring at all times. The generators wiring would also be connected to the neutral and ground of the house wiring whenever it was plugged into the flanged inlet. The needed bonding of the neutral to the ground would be provided by the main bonding jumper that is part of your service equipment. You will not need to do anything to your generator other than to plug it in. In addition you will eliminate the use of a cord cap that is not listed for that use from the armored cable to your furnace controls.
-- Tom Horne

"Mr Wizzard" wrote:

"William P.N. Smith" wrote;
What about a 3-prong plug with neutral and ground tied together plugged into the unused generator outlet? Then you don't need tools to select furnace operation...
3-inch piece of Belden rubber test lead wire with a spade lug on one end (with the yellow plastic part removed, crimpted, soldered, and piece of shrink tube) and a nice bananna plug on the other (pluged into the left-most bananna jack for paralell operation).

Ah, I had slightly misunderstood how you had the thing wired, that's pretty good too. The only problem I have with it is if the wire's long enough to reach to the wrong banana jack, and what happens when someone hooks it up wrong. The prewired plug cna't get hooked up wrong, (and yeah, probably should be tethered) but again, that's a nit.

Mr Wizzard wrote:

Overall rating: 9.5 (would be 10 if Honda would have designed an "automatic" venting gas cap) If you forget to flip the little lever on the gas cap to "on" (vent "on" ?) the generator will die after 15-20 min. (happens almost every time with me)

LOL. In my case, I find even switching the vent doesn't work. Once set to "on", I need to crack the cap open about 1/8th turn (any more and vibration will work the cap right off).
What do you mean by "automatic", though? Most gas caps are "automatic" - meaning they're just permanently vented. Having a positive seal should help the gas to stay stable for lengthy periods of disuse. Perhaps there should be an always-vented cap option for those of us who do use the generator regularly. -- derek

"Mr Wizzard" wrote in message

== The final conclusiion to the on-going saga ==
Did you try the toroid iron on the hot for a filter as somebody suggested they had success with?
Actually, I did some more experimenting tonight, and I concluded that there is only 3 things that work:
1) Isolate the ground from the furnace, and let it float.
2) Tie neutral to ground at the generater recepitcal.
3) Tie neutral to ground at the generator recepticle with a .1uf capicator. (ground to hot doesn't work)
Things I've tried:
- Ground the generator to: a) breaker box, b) to Earth.
- EMI/RFI filters galore: common mode, differential, both. (store bought, home brew, and all imaginable combinations).
Observations:
At idle, and nothing pluged it, if I connect Neutral to ground at the generator, I get ever so slight sparking when I drag the neutral lead over the ground lead. It is not enough to light a C7 night light bulb. So I then connected neutral to ground (at the generator) thru a larger Neon bulb, and it lights it at maybe 1/4 - 1/3 brightness.
The final fix:
Since the 2 "paralell operation" connectors are actually standard bananna plug sockets, and these paralell operation bananna sockets are connected directly to the duplex recepticles, I made a 3-inch lead out of rubber test-lead wire, connected one end to the ground screw with a crimp-on terminal, and the other end with a male bananna plug, and pluged it in the left most bananna socket for "paralell operation". I also labeled the 2 bananna jacks on the generator as "N" (neutral) on the left, and "L" (hot) on the right. Its clean, easy to do, looks good, temporary, and any one can do it since it requires no soldering. You can get the solderless bananna plus at Radio Shack: http://www.radioshack.com/sm-solderless-banana-plugs--pi-2102839.html Crimp terminal for the ground screw can be bought from the local autoparts store. Use any kind of wire.
Summary: Connect left-lost jack for parallel operation to the ground screw on the front of the generator. This bonds neutral to ground at the generator, and is "code" in a lot of places.
Nice to see the bonding to neutral worked for you. As I sit here looking at

the controller board out of a goodman GMP series furnace I note that there is a ceramic disc capacitor connecting the hot terminal on the board with the flame sense terminal. It goes hot-capacitor-10 megohm resistor-sense circuit-1 megohm resistor-flame sense terminal. This is how it senses the flame and why neutral must be bonded to ground.

"Thomas Horne" wrote in message

Please advise what type of plug you are running the power from on the generator and how you are connecting it to the furnace. -- Tom Horne
Well we aren't no thin blue heroes and yet we aren't no blackguards to. We're just working men and woman most remarkable like you.

Sure. My setup is simple as pie (I like simple) First off, my natural gas home furnace was originally hard-wired to a junction box in the wall in the garage with "BX" - that corrugated metal jacketed cable. So I hacked it off right there at the junction box, and changed out the face-plate of the junction box to a be a single standard 3-prong receptacle. (I wanted just a single so that nothing else can be plugged into it, and for aesthetics's - wanted it to look good) I believe I had to hunt down a J box cover "with" the single 3-prong receptacle already mounted to the cover - basically a integrated J-box cover with a single 3-prong receptacle) And on the furnace side, simply put a 3-prong plug on the end of the BX cable. I went with a particular Bryant wire devices plug because the BX cable wouldn't fit in any other kind of plug, and most 3-prong plugs all have some sort of screw-clamp deal to grip the cable, and I didn't want to smash the end of the BX. This particular Bryant plug and a real nice rubber membrane deal on the back that auto conforms to the cable for a seal/grip. This is sort of like the plug I went with (although the one I found at the local hardware store was actually yellow, and corrosion resistant, but it looks like the same) :
http://www.hubbellcatalog.com/bryant/datasheet.asp?PN=BRY5266NP&FAM=bry-straightblade&P=1002,4726,7306 If that link is too long, try this: http://tinyurl.com/7g7sh So in normal operation, the furnace is simply plugged into the wall like an ordinary household appliance. When I want to run it on the Honda eu2000i, I simply unplug the furnace from the wall, plug it into a standard 25-foot made in China Home Depot 12-gage yellow extension cord, run that cord out under the garage door to either the driveway, corner of the house, or the front porch or where ever I decide to plop the generator. (I worry about theft, so I try not to plop the generator down in the middle of the generator if it will run unattended for any time.
So in summary, hack off the hardwired connection to the furnace and put a plug on it and just plug it into a regular receptacle, or convert junction box to a receptacle. Most houses probably have their furnaces wired with regular Romex wire, and you can put a 3-prong plug directly on the Romex. Mine was "BX" because of a recent remodel and I put the furnace in myself and wanted it to look "industrial-like". The furnace draws a tad over 6 Amps on startup (because of the hot-surface igniter), and a little over 2 Amps while its running afterwards - about the same as a fridge. Then unplug it from the wall, and into a 25-foot extension cord, and the extension cord directly into either of the 2 receptacles on the Honda eu2000i, and wallah. (don't forget to jumper that left-most banana plug socket to the ground screw on the front).
So I like this setup (a lot). I've been running my furnace on the generator for most of the weekend for a variety of reasons: - To break in the generator. - Get an idea of noise, and best location. - Get an idea of gas consumption. - Experiment, the novelty of it all, etc.
Overall rating: 9.5 (would be 10 if Honda would have designed an "automatic" venting gas cap) If you forget to flip the little lever on the gas cap to "on" (vent "on" ?) the generator will die after 15-20 min. (happens almost every time with me)
Let me suggest that you Install a single pole, double through, center off, switch in the raised cover to replace the original single pole switch. You then mount a box with a flanged inlet for the cord from the generator. Wire the switch so that the up position connects the homes furnace branch circuit to the furnace equipment; the center off position connects the furnace to nothing; and the down position connects the furnace equipment to the brass colored screw of the flanged inlet. The silver colored screw is connected to the splice between the branch circuit neutral and the furnace equipment neutral. The green colored screw is connected to the box via a pig tail to a grounding screw. In that way the furnace would be connected to the neutral and ground of the house wiring at all times. The generators wiring would also be connected to the neutral and ground of the house wiring whenever it was plugged into the flanged inlet. The needed bonding of the neutral to the ground would be provided by the main bonding jumper that is part of your service equipment. You will not need to do anything to your generator other than to plug it in. In addition you will eliminate the use of a cord cap that is not listed for that use from the armored cable to your furnace controls.

Yeah, that would do it (and in the works). However, and from another branch of the original thread, Imna "just" do the flanged plug and skip the switch. Back contacts of the relay would tie furnace to house wiring, and power on the flanged inlet pulls the relay in to connect the generator to the furnace, and removes the furnace from the house mains. And yeah, I can tie the neutral and ground to the neutral and ground of the house wiring (at the furnace) and effectively just have the relay switch the hot - that would work. Good idea actually, thatnks.

-- Tom Horne

"Derek Broughton" wrote in message

Mr Wizzard wrote:
Overall rating: 9.5 (would be 10 if Honda would have designed an "automatic" venting gas cap) If you forget to flip the little lever on the gas cap to "on" (vent "on" ?) the generator will die after 15-20 min. (happens almost every time with me)
LOL. In my case, I find even switching the vent doesn't work. Once set to "on", I need to crack the cap open about 1/8th turn (any more and vibration will work the cap right off).
What do you mean by "automatic", though? Most gas caps are "automatic" - meaning they're just permanently vented. Having a positive seal should help the gas to stay stable for lengthy periods of disuse. Perhaps there should be an always-vented cap option for those of us who do use the generator regularly.

Yeah, shit... Damn gas nowa days.... (really P.O'd here) I got a LOT of gas powered stuff here - bunch of outboards, weedwackers, chipper/shreader, vac, tiller, mowers, saws, etc and no matter HOW air tight I keep the caps, they ALL have this problem when the gas in the bowl turns that dark brown, varnish smellin crap in just a few weeks, well, many a couple 2-3 months. I hate it. Did a bunch of research and find that this new additive that they added this last summer (which is what caused that big gas price hike pre-Katrina) happens to cause this condition (of this happening so fast). Used to be that you could leave the fuel in there for up to a year or more before that started happening, Uh-ha, not no more! - beware !. Now I gotta do Stabil in EVERYthing "all" the time. Oh well, hit a sore spot (with that gas additive)
Point on the Honda generator cap, yeah, I would have liked a "always vented" cap, but oh well. If you gotta crack the cap, I'd look into that, something aint right.
Hey, so tell me... Your's is a eu2000is, right? How long you had it, and how many hours you go on it? Reason I ask is, mine is brand new, right? Well, I got "maybe" one hour on it (still on its first tank of gas that came in it), and when I start it each time (cold), I get a puff (or two) of oil smoke out if it - like an older car with leaky valve seals. So I'm wondering if yours does that. I'm trying to break mine in by running it on varying loads. Ran the furnace on it most of the weekend, and its STILL on the original tank of gas. When furnace not ruuning, I plug a heater into it, and alternate the 700w/1500w switch every 10 minutes or so (for a proper break in). After first tank, I will change the oil - I always to that on new equipment. Just wondered about that puff of oil smoke on startup.

-- derek

"William P.N. Smith" wrote in message

"Mr Wizzard" wrote: "William P.N. Smith" wrote;
What about a 3-prong plug with neutral and ground tied together plugged into the unused generator outlet? Then you don't need tools to select furnace operation...
3-inch piece of Belden rubber test lead wire with a spade lug on one end (with the yellow plastic part removed, crimpted, soldered, and piece of shrink tube) and a nice bananna plug on the other (pluged into the left-most bananna jack for paralell operation).
Ah, I had slightly misunderstood how you had the thing wired, that's pretty good too. The only problem I have with it is if the wire's long enough to reach to the wrong banana jack, and what happens when someone hooks it up wrong. The prewired plug cna't get hooked up wrong, (and yeah, probably should be tethered) but again, that's a nit.

Hehe, you and I think a lot alike. The wire is short, yeah, but can make it to the Hot bananna jack. So, I made a label tag for the wire warning to plug it ONLY into "N". Looks professional, but by no means fool-proof. What I'm looking for is the reverse of one of them little plastic caps that they put on the end of the bananna plug on a set of new Fluke meter leads (if you've ever seen these). Like a plastic "plug" that I can stick in the Hot bananna plug socket on the generator. So I dunno, I may have to re-think this. And what is a "nit" by the way?

"Daniel Armstrong" wrote in message

"Mr Wizzard" wrote in message == The final conclusiion to the on-going saga ==
Did you try the toroid iron on the hot for a filter as somebody suggested they had success with?
Actually, I did some more experimenting tonight, and I concluded that there is only 3 things that work:
1) Isolate the ground from the furnace, and let it float.
2) Tie neutral to ground at the generater recepitcal.
3) Tie neutral to ground at the generator recepticle with a .1uf capicator. (ground to hot doesn't work)
Things I've tried:
- Ground the generator to: a) breaker box, b) to Earth.
- EMI/RFI filters galore: common mode, differential, both. (store bought, home brew, and all imaginable combinations).
Observations:
At idle, and nothing pluged it, if I connect Neutral to ground at the generator, I get ever so slight sparking when I drag the neutral lead over the ground lead. It is not enough to light a C7 night light bulb. So I then connected neutral to ground (at the generator) thru a larger Neon bulb, and it lights it at maybe 1/4 - 1/3 brightness.
The final fix:
Since the 2 "paralell operation" connectors are actually standard bananna plug sockets, and these paralell operation bananna sockets are connected directly to the duplex recepticles, I made a 3-inch lead out of rubber test-lead wire, connected one end to the ground screw with a crimp-on terminal, and the other end with a male bananna plug, and pluged it in the left most bananna socket for "paralell operation". I also labeled the 2 bananna jacks on the generator as "N" (neutral) on the left, and "L" (hot) on the right. Its clean, easy to do, looks good, temporary, and any one can do it since it requires no soldering. You can get the solderless bananna plus at Radio Shack: http://www.radioshack.com/sm-solderless-banana-plugs--pi-2102839.html Crimp terminal for the ground screw can be bought from the local autoparts store. Use any kind of wire.
Summary: Connect left-lost jack for parallel operation to the ground screw on the front of the generator. This bonds neutral to ground at the generator, and is "code" in a lot of places.
Nice to see the bonding to neutral worked for you. As I sit here looking at the controller board out of a goodman GMP series furnace I note that there is a ceramic disc capacitor connecting the hot terminal on the board with the flame sense terminal. It goes hot-capacitor-10 megohm resistor-sense circuit-1 megohm resistor-flame sense terminal. This is how it senses the flame and why neutral must be bonded to ground.

Well, lets think about this..... Remember, the thing works fine if I leave ground "floating", and only acts up when connected to generator frame ground (without being bonded to neutral). Wonder why yours is "hot->cap->resistor->sense... Hum. I'm tempted to open mine up, just so I know how it works. (I'm like that - I have the need to have 100% full understanding) Thanks for that info - thats the kinda stuff I was looking for.

Mr Wizzard wrote:

Yeah, shit... �Damn gas nowa days.... (really P.O'd here) .... Oh well, hit a sore spot (with that gas additive)

Oops. I guess I did :-)

Point on the Honda generator cap, yeah, I would have liked a "always vented" cap, but oh well. �If you gotta crack the cap, I'd look into that, something aint right.

True, but not enough of a problem to bother me.

Hey, so tell me... �Your's is a eu2000is, right? �How long you had it, and how many hours you go on it?

I've had it for 18 months, and have about 60 hours on it.

Reason I ask is, mine is brand new, right? �Well, I got "maybe" one hour on it (still on its first tank of gas that came in it), and when I start it each time (cold), I get a puff (or two) of oil smoke out if it - like an older car with leaky valve seals.

No such problem for me. -- derek

"Mr Wizzard" wrote:

"William P.N. Smith" wrote: The only problem I have with it is if the wire's long enough to reach to the wrong banana jack
Like a plastic "plug" that I can stick in the Hot bananna plug socket on the generator.

Well, there's always the Banana plug without a wire attached, or (if you want a leash) a banana plug screwed onto a small piece of nylon line, or grab some calibers and get a short piece of plastic rod the right size, or (if you are not using the "Hot" banana plug for anything(, a hot-melt glue gun (the white hot-melt glue is removable, though it may be a bit of work) I'd probably put a red banana jack in the hole and then tack it down from the outside with hot-melt glue...

nit. And what is a "nit" by the way?

Literally the egg of a head lice, a little teeny tiny white speck. Curing head lice in the Good Old Days (before special medicated shampoos, etc) used to involve "picking nits", getting every single last little tiny spec out of your child's hair.
"Does Anal-Retentive have a hyphen?" 8*)