insulated window curtains

Anyone know of any sources for insulated window curtains, or directions on how to make them? Some of our windows, although low-e, argon filled, etc, are cold.
Thanks in advance.
Scott

Scott Loupin wrote:

Anyone know of any sources for insulated window curtains, or directions on how to make them? Some of our windows, although low-e, argon filled, etc, are cold.
I know they used to be advertised regularly in "Harrowsmith Country Life"

magazine, but I haven't picked up a copy in years.
You want to be really careful about doing this. For North or West facing windows it's probably safe. For South-facing, it might be. Don't do it on East windows. If they're tight enough to really work, you can end up gathering enough heat between the window and the insulation to blow the seals on the panes before you open the curtain. A local passive-solar builder has experimented with this at considerable cost :-( -- derek

Scott Loupin wrote:

Anyone know of any sources for insulated window curtains, or directions on how to make them? Some of our windows, although low-e, argon filled, etc, are cold.
Thanks in advance.
Scott
Hi Scott,

There are some plans and links for insulating window curtains and other window insulating treatments on my site here:
http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/Conservation/conservation.htm scan down the page to "Insulating Window Treatments"
I did not actually put it in the list above, but we use duofold blinds with a side "energy track" that closes up the edge gap -- I think these are made by Symphony Shades. They seem to work pretty well.

--
Gary
www.BuildItSolar.com gary@BuildItSolar.com "Build It Yourself" Solar Projects




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Very interesting. Could you describe the environment and circumstances in which this happened (including maybe what windows are at risk)? Seems to me that the S-facing windows would be at most risk here, and E at next to lowest. Oh- that's in CT, US of A.
J

barry@sme-online.com wrote:

Very interesting. Could you describe the environment and circumstances in which this happened (including maybe what windows are at risk)? Seems to me that the S-facing windows would be at most risk here, and E at next to lowest. Oh- that's in CT, US of A.

East windows are at risk if they can heat up before you get up and open the curtains. S. window curtains are more likely to be opened before they get to be a problem. Really, W. windows - exposed to the setting sun at the best angle of incidence - are the ones that heat up the most, but you're not likely to have the curtains closed at the time!
I don't have a complete recollection of Don's experiments, but I think it often came down to windows where the homeowner left the blinds closed all day - for instance a bedroom which the occupants left in the morning without opening them. In the main living areas, you're not likely to leave the curtains closed when it's light outside and you're up and about. -- derek

"Window quilts" is a brand name of an insulating fabric batt and a method of making roman shade style window insulation that we have been using for over 20 or 25 years with good results, including on the south windows of our greenhouse/sunspace. Googling "window quilts" should give you good results.

Derek Broughton wrote:

... I think it often came down to windows where the homeowner left the blinds closed all day...

We might collect solar heat and avoid damage by leaving an opening at the top.
Nick

nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu wrote:

Derek Broughton wrote:
... I think it often came down to windows where the homeowner left the blinds closed all day...
We might collect solar heat and avoid damage by leaving an opening at the top.

Probably. You just need to be careful and consider the possibility of whether you can overheat that space. I don't even know what temperature you'd need to worry about. -- derek

Derek Broughton wrote:

Scott Loupin wrote:
Anyone know of any sources for insulated window curtains, or directions on how to make them? Some of our windows, although low-e, argon filled, etc, are cold.
I know they used to be advertised regularly in "Harrowsmith Country Life" magazine, but I haven't picked up a copy in years.
You want to be really careful about doing this. For North or West facing windows it's probably safe. For South-facing, it might be. Don't do it on East windows. If they're tight enough to really work, you can end up gathering enough heat between the window and the insulation to blow the seals on the panes before you open the curtain. A local passive-solar builder has experimented with this at considerable cost :-(

Hi Derek,
It would be nice to get more detial on this.
We have had duofold shades with side "energy tracks" (for a tight fit) on our large east facing windows for 3 years now, and have had no problem. We leave the shades down when traveling, so they have been down for weeks at a time.
I wonder if it depends a lot on the glass. Some glass is made to absorb heat so to lessen room overheating -- this may make things worse, since the heat is absorbed by the glass. But, our east windows are very slightly tinted, and do absorb some heat, and we still have had no problem.
I guess the question could be put to a window manufacturer.
--
Gary
www.BuildItSolar.com gary@BuildItSolar.com "Build It Yourself" Solar Projects




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"Scott Loupin" wrote in message

Anyone know of any sources for insulated window curtains, or directions on how to make them? Some of our windows, although low-e, argon filled, etc, are cold.
Thanks in advance.

I'm assuming the plan is to stop heat loss radiating out through the window pane, and to avoid the convective heat loss caused by cool air behind the curtain spilling to the floor and pouring out into the room. In lieu of a commercially-available solution, here are some suggestions.
Two factors are necessary to accomplish these two goals: Firstly, an insulating and reflecting material in the curtain to lessen radiant heat loss. A sheet of reflectix or ayrfoil-type material is probably the most cost effective for this purpose. A light-colored quilt may serve that purpose too.
Secondly, the airflow behind the curtain should be reduced by either fastening the curtain to the wall with something like Velcro, or installing a thick, soft cushioning material from top to bottom and along the sides.
In addition, I would apply a clear plastic barrier over the window for the winter as a first line of defense against the cold.

nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu wrote:

Derek Broughton wrote:
... I think it often came down to windows where the homeowner left the blinds closed all day...
We might collect solar heat and avoid damage by leaving an opening at the top.
Nick
Hi Nick,

That is a slick idea -- how about a duofold blind that has an integrated solar collector? It could have a slot opening across the top and one or two plastic film dampers at the bottom to prevent reverse flow? It would automatically transition from insulating mode to collecting mode? The slot across the top would have little effect on its performance as a window insulator?
While it would not perform any better as a collector than just opening the shade, there are times when you might not want the shade open due to glare or whatever -- especially for east or west windows. For rooms that might tend to overheat if the shade was left open, some thermal mass might be placed above the exit slot?
The incremental cost over a regular shade would be so small that you could afford to add it to east or west facing windows, even though they are not ideally oriented for collecting? This is literally a 10 cent solar collector if you only consider the incrmental cost over the shade.
Potentially the plastic film dampers could be built into a fixed assembly that sits in the lower 3 inches or so of the window opening, with the bottom of the closed duofold resting on top the film damper support member?

--
Gary
www.BuildItSolar.com gary@BuildItSolar.com "Build It Yourself" Solar Projects




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Gary wrote:

We might collect solar heat and avoid damage with a top opening.
... how about a duofold blind that has an integrated solar collector?

Sounds cool. What's "duofold"?

It could have a slot opening across the top and one or two plastic film dampers at the bottom to prevent reverse flow? It would automatically transition from insulating mode to collecting mode? The slot across the top would have little effect on its performance as a window insulator?

Sure, but it would be nice to avoid the plastic film, which is somewhat fragile and may leak and may not work very well with a small height diff. How about a "flow organizer" instead, with the only openings at the top? At night, air stays trapped inside. During the day, cool air flows in at the top and falls down next to the glazing and gets warmed as it flows from south to north through a dark mesh and flows up and back out just above the cool air entrance. This would tend to make the shade deep in the NS direction, ie it might project into the room a few inches from the inner glazing.

The incremental cost over a regular shade would be so small that you could afford to add it to east or west facing windows, even though they are not ideally oriented for collecting? This is literally a 10 cent solar collector if you only consider the incrmental cost over the shade.

Sounds nice :-)
Nick

nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu wrote:

Gary wrote:
We might collect solar heat and avoid damage with a top opening.

... how about a duofold blind that has an integrated solar collector?
Sounds cool. What's "duofold"?

Maybe the right word is cellular? -- anyway they look like this: http://cellularwindowshades.com/cordless.html

It could have a slot opening across the top and one or two plastic film dampers at the bottom to prevent reverse flow? It would automatically transition from insulating mode to collecting mode? The slot across the top would have little effect on its performance as a window insulator?
Sure, but it would be nice to avoid the plastic film, which is somewhat fragile and may leak and may not work very well with a small height diff. How about a "flow organizer" instead, with the only openings at the top? At night, air stays trapped inside. During the day, cool air flows in at the top and falls down next to the glazing and gets warmed as it flows from south to north through a dark mesh and flows up and back out just above the cool air entrance. This would tend to make the shade deep in the NS direction, ie it might project into the room a few inches from the inner glazing.
The incremental cost over a regular shade would be so small that you could afford to add it to east or west facing windows, even though they are not ideally oriented for collecting? This is literally a 10 cent solar collector if you only consider the incrmental cost over the shade.

I decided to go ahead and change our only south facing window to this scheme. I'll put some pictures (and hopefully data) up under the "Experimental" tab of www.BuildItSolar.com tomorrow late in the day. I'm just going to try the plastic film dampers for a start, since I know how to make these work -- maybe flow organizers later -- is this the same as the Delaney concept?
Gary

Sounds nice :-)
Nick

--
Gary
www.BuildItSolar.com gary@BuildItSolar.com "Build It Yourself" Solar Projects




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Gary wrote:

... it would be nice to avoid the plastic film, which is somewhat fragile and may leak and may not work very well with a small height diff. How about a "flow organizer" instead, with the only openings at the top? At night, air stays trapped inside. During the day, cool air flows in at the top and falls down next to the glazing and gets warmed as it flows from south to north through a dark mesh and flows up and back out just above the cool air entrance. This would tend to make the shade deep in the NS direction, ie it might project into the room a few inches from the inner glazing...
I'm just going to try the plastic film dampers for a start, since I know how to make these work -- maybe flow organizers later -- is this the same as the Delaney concept?

Yes, but simpler, with only 1 "chimney" in the center. After lots of 3D head scratching, I found a way to make it from 3 simple layers of foamboard, IIRC, an inboard layer with a gap at the top, and 2 vertical foamboard strips inside that to support the mesh... I can't recall the organizer geometry, but the result was too thick for the windows I had in mind, so I tossed the sketches.
Nick

In article , "Scott Loupin" wrote:

Anyone know of any sources for insulated window curtains, or directions on how to make them? Some of our windows, although low-e, argon filled, etc, are cold.
Thanks in advance.
Scott

I've read a great book on this. "Movable Insulation" by William Langdon ISBN 0-87757-310-0 old might be OoP.
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