LED Solar Light

I've been reading about new LED lightbulbs which evidently now approximate a 40 watt incadescent lightbulb, but which only require 3 watts of power. The link below is from Citizen, a Japanese electronic company.
http://brightsidetech.com/newsletter/200601/whitepapers/White_Power_LED_CL-L100.pdf
My question is that eventually most LED lights or cold compact fluorescents shortly will be capable of replacing 60-100 watts incandescents, and while the initial costs for the bulbs would be high, they should drop dramatically and approach the cost of compact fluorescents. Wouldn't it be reasonable to run most of these low wattage lights off a solar or fuel cell source. In fact, it seems to me that with 40 watts of light, these would make excellent garden or accent lights outdoors. Is the battery technology advanced enough to run these lights off solar cells. I'd be interested in others thoughts

Philip F. Cohen wrote:

I've been reading about new LED lightbulbs which evidently now approximate a 40 watt incadescent lightbulb, but which only require 3 watts of power. The link below is from Citizen, a Japanese electronic company.
http://brightsidetech.com/newsletter/200601/whitepapers/White_Power_LED_CL-L100.pdf

First off, it's an advertising sheet and therefore the numbers can be highly suspect. I'll believe it when they actually sell the product and it's gone through some kind of independent test.
That said, according to their sheet the LED is roughly equivalent in efficiency to fluorescents. This means the 3.5W LED would produce as much light as a 3.5W fluorescent or 14W incandescent. To approximate a 40W incandescent it would require 10W using these, if they actually perform to advertised specs.

My question is that eventually most LED lights or cold compact fluorescents shortly will be capable of replacing 60-100 watts incandescents, and while the initial costs for the bulbs would be high, they should drop dramatically and approach the cost of compact fluorescents.

Compact fluorescents already are a direct replacement for less efficient incandescents in the 40-150W range and they make them in 12V, 24V, and 48V DC versions as well. Some of the more popular models can be purchased for as little as $2 each which makes them fairly affordable.

Wouldn't it be reasonable to run most of these low wattage lights off a solar or fuel cell source. In fact, it seems to me that with 40 watts of light, these would make excellent garden or accent lights outdoors. Is the battery technology advanced enough to run these lights off solar cells. I'd be interested in others thoughts

Electricity from fuel cells is horrendously expensive, more especially since they don't really have any fuel cells in the 10W size outside research labs. For that matter, they don't really have any fuel cells outside of research labs no matter what the size. You might consider pint sized nuclear reactors as long as you are limiting yourself to nearly unobtainable power sources regardless of cost.
PV is more affordable in the sense that it's only very expensive.
Batteries have come a long way, though you're probably going to find lead acid to be the most affordable for stationary use.
Lastly, who wants a 40W garden accent light? The current models are several orders of magnitudes less bright.
Anthony

Philip F. Cohen wrote:

I've been reading about new LED lightbulbs which evidently now approximate a 40 watt incadescent lightbulb, but which only require 3 watts of power. The link below is from Citizen, a Japanese electronic company.
A 3 watt LED cannot replace a 40 watt Incandescent on a lumen/watt

basis. In lumen output it would replace a 3 watt incandescent at best, but for focused task lighting is much more appropriate than a 40 watt incandescent.
-- Steve Spence Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html

Anthony Matonak wrote:

Electricity from fuel cells is horrendously expensive, more especially since they don't really have any fuel cells in the 10W size outside research labs. For that matter, they don't really have any fuel cells outside of research labs no matter what the size.

That's not really true - Ballard was running buses in Calgary on their fuel cells 5 years or more ago. Not available for retail sale, but still outside the research lab. -- derek

Derek Broughton wrote:

Anthony Matonak wrote:
Electricity from fuel cells is horrendously expensive, more especially since they don't really have any fuel cells in the 10W size outside research labs. For that matter, they don't really have any fuel cells outside of research labs no matter what the size.
That's not really true - Ballard was running buses in Calgary on their fuel cells 5 years or more ago. Not available for retail sale, but still outside the research lab.

But investment funded, so it wasn't market supported. It was a mobile research lab. Takes a whole lot of rich riders to support a multimillion dollar fuel cell and $6-$10 / gallon GGE fuel.
-- Steve Spence Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html

Anthony Matonak wrote:

[Don't] really have any fuel cells outside of research labs no matter what the size.

Except for http://www.tgdaily.com/2005/12/30/fuelcells_ces_jadoo/

William P.N. Smith wrote:

Anthony Matonak wrote:
[Don't] really have any fuel cells outside of research labs no matter what the size.
Except for http://www.tgdaily.com/2005/12/30/fuelcells_ces_jadoo/

From the cited webpage... : No specifications or pricing has been announced for the new : prosumer system, but it's safe to say that it won't be cheap.
Ok, one company has just started selling fuel cells at very high prices to "professionals" and may sell to ordinary mortals soon.
I admit my knowledge on the topic is clearly that much out of date. :)
Anthony

A company that does a lot of neat things with solar lighting (Bus stops, tower lights, marine markers, etc) can be found here:
http://www.carmanah.com/
They use the GATES (now Enersys) rolled lead AGM cells. And they use a microchip to manage the power to the load based on available sunlight.

I think u can even run these lights on radio frequency waves which are all arround us all the time., all you need is right tools to collect enough electric power from RF waves. I guess a crystal and an RF coil probably will give u enough electrical power to light these new LED bulbs. No need for battery or solar pannels.

Anthony Matonak wrote:

Philip F. Cohen wrote:
I've been reading about new LED lightbulbs which evidently now approximate a 40 watt incadescent lightbulb, but which only require 3 watts of power. The link below is from Citizen, a Japanese electronic company.
http://brightsidetech.com/newsletter/200601/whitepapers/White_Power_LED_CL-L100.pdf

First off, it's an advertising sheet and therefore the numbers can be highly suspect. I'll believe it when they actually sell the product and it's gone through some kind of independent test.
That said, according to their sheet the LED is roughly equivalent in efficiency to fluorescents. This means the 3.5W LED would produce as much light as a 3.5W fluorescent or 14W incandescent. To approximate a 40W incandescent it would require 10W using these, if they actually perform to advertised specs.
My question is that eventually most LED lights or cold compact fluorescents shortly will be capable of replacing 60-100 watts incandescents, and while the initial costs for the bulbs would be high, they should drop dramatically and approach the cost of compact fluorescents.
Compact fluorescents already are a direct replacement for less efficient incandescents in the 40-150W range and they make them in 12V, 24V, and 48V DC versions as well. Some of the more popular models can be purchased for as little as $2 each which makes them fairly affordable.
Wouldn't it be reasonable to run most of these low wattage lights off a solar or fuel cell source. In fact, it seems to me that with 40 watts of light, these would make excellent garden or accent lights outdoors. Is the battery technology advanced enough to run these lights off solar cells. I'd be interested in others thoughts
Electricity from fuel cells is horrendously expensive, more especially since they don't really have any fuel cells in the 10W size outside research labs. For that matter, they don't really have any fuel cells outside of research labs no matter what the size. You might consider pint sized nuclear reactors as long as you are limiting yourself to nearly unobtainable power sources regardless of cost.
PV is more affordable in the sense that it's only very expensive.
Batteries have come a long way, though you're probably going to find lead acid to be the most affordable for stationary use.
Lastly, who wants a 40W garden accent light? The current models are several orders of magnitudes less bright.
Anthony Where can you get fluorescents for $2? I have been looking for some low

cost, low voltage fluorescents.
Does anyone know if low voltage fluorescents are available in AC form? Most outdoor low voltage transformers are 12V AC.
Oscar

Parse wrote:

Anthony Matonak wrote: .... Compact fluorescents already are a direct replacement for less efficient incandescents in the 40-150W range and they make them in 12V, 24V, and 48V DC versions as well. Some of the more popular models can be purchased for as little as $2 each which makes them fairly affordable.
Where can you get fluorescents for $2? I have been looking for some low cost, low voltage fluorescents.

You can sometimes find them in dollar stores but those models tend to be low in quality.
http://store.yahoo.com/genuineaccessories/15w60w.html The above link sells 13W CF for $1 but I don't know what they charge for shipping.
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=146558-3-29071&lpage=none This outfit sells a four pack of 13W CF for $8.
An outfit called 'Home Depot' sells similar multi-packs for similar prices but they don't seem to advertise the fact on the internet. It's quite likely a local hardware or home improvement store would carry the same kind of item.
All of these are normal line voltage AC, of course.
Anthony

Anthony Matonak wrote:

An outfit called 'Home Depot' sells similar multi-packs...

.... 6 14 W CFs for $9.97, as of last week.
Nick

I drove by a large fuel cell from Plug power running a guys home on NG everday. This was 5 years ago. It was one of several test sites.
"Anthony Matonak" wrote in message

Philip F. Cohen wrote: I've been reading about new LED lightbulbs which evidently now approximate a 40 watt incadescent lightbulb, but which only require 3 watts of power. The link below is from Citizen, a Japanese electronic company.
http://brightsidetech.com/newsletter/200601/whitepapers/White_Power_LED_CL-L100.pdf
First off, it's an advertising sheet and therefore the numbers can be highly suspect. I'll believe it when they actually sell the product and it's gone through some kind of independent test.
That said, according to their sheet the LED is roughly equivalent in efficiency to fluorescents. This means the 3.5W LED would produce as much light as a 3.5W fluorescent or 14W incandescent. To approximate a 40W incandescent it would require 10W using these, if they actually perform to advertised specs.
My question is that eventually most LED lights or cold compact fluorescents shortly will be capable of replacing 60-100 watts incandescents, and while the initial costs for the bulbs would be high, they should drop dramatically and approach the cost of compact fluorescents.
Compact fluorescents already are a direct replacement for less efficient incandescents in the 40-150W range and they make them in 12V, 24V, and 48V DC versions as well. Some of the more popular models can be purchased for as little as $2 each which makes them fairly affordable.
Wouldn't it be reasonable to run most of these low wattage lights off a solar or fuel cell source. In fact, it seems to me that with 40 watts of light, these would make excellent garden or accent lights outdoors. Is the battery technology advanced enough to run these lights off solar cells. I'd be interested in others thoughts
Electricity from fuel cells is horrendously expensive, more especially since they don't really have any fuel cells in the 10W size outside research labs. For that matter, they don't really have any fuel cells outside of research labs no matter what the size. You might consider pint sized nuclear reactors as long as you are limiting yourself to nearly unobtainable power sources regardless of cost.
PV is more affordable in the sense that it's only very expensive.
Batteries have come a long way, though you're probably going to find lead acid to be the most affordable for stationary use.
Lastly, who wants a 40W garden accent light? The current models are several orders of magnitudes less bright.
Anthony

"Drums" wrote:

I drove by a large fuel cell from Plug power running a guys home on NG everday. This was 5 years ago. It was one of several test sites.

Yeah, they did some testing, but they got stuck in "coming soon" for the better part of a decade. Had to be some fundamental problem (my guess is reformer/membrane lifetime/cost issues), as there was certainly enough demand for what their marketing folks were pushing.

Yep, One of the problems they were working on was size also. The Fuel cell car that is being tested has a life span of 4 years on the fuel cell. They are working on it. They are certainly not there yet.
"William P.N. Smith" wrote in message

"Drums" wrote: I drove by a large fuel cell from Plug power running a guys home on NG everday. This was 5 years ago. It was one of several test sites.
Yeah, they did some testing, but they got stuck in "coming soon" for the better part of a decade. Had to be some fundamental problem (my guess is reformer/membrane lifetime/cost issues), as there was certainly enough demand for what their marketing folks were pushing.