UPDATE: Honda eu2000i and home furnace

Damn! - the RFI filter trick didn't work for the furnace after all. Got around to building an official RFI filter in an electrical box, but it all together, and it didn't work! - flame sensor kicking out.
Back to the drawing board, running experiments, come to find out that is has something to do with "grounding" (as one poster mentioned). Took all the RFI crap out of the circuit, and just ran line/neutral from the Honda eu2000i, and let the ground float, and it all works fine. I have a cheater cord which is an old 2-prong cloths iron coard, with aligator clips on the other end. Plug that into the generator, and aligator clip to just line and neutral of the 3-prong plug on the furnace, and it works. Whats the dealy-O ? I don't imagine that I can tie neutral and ground together at the generator since its an inverter. Ain't that something. when I "thought" I got it to work with the RFI torroiods and such, I realized that I was testing all of that with my trusty 2-prong cheater cord (I love that thing). So when I thought I solved it with the RFI filter, I was doing it with the ground floating (which is all that it takes to make it work).
Back out to the bench with scope in hand, will let you know what I ultimately conclude.

Mr Wizzard wrote:

Damn! - the RFI filter trick didn't work for the furnace after all. Got around to building an official RFI filter in an electrical box, but it all together, and it didn't work! - flame sensor kicking out.
Back to the drawing board, running experiments, come to find out that is has something to do with "grounding" (as one poster mentioned). Took all the RFI crap out of the circuit, and just ran line/neutral from the Honda eu2000i, and let the ground float, and it all works fine. I have a cheater cord which is an old 2-prong cloths iron coard, with aligator clips on the other end. Plug that into the generator, and aligator clip to just line and neutral of the 3-prong plug on the furnace, and it works. Whats the dealy-O ? I don't imagine that I can tie neutral and ground together at the generator since its an inverter. Ain't that something. when I "thought" I got it to work with the RFI torroiods and such, I realized that I was testing all of that with my trusty 2-prong cheater cord (I love that thing). So when I thought I solved it with the RFI filter, I was doing it with the ground floating (which is all that it takes to make it work).
Back out to the bench with scope in hand, will let you know what I ultimately conclude.

One of the earlier question was along the lines of: "?Is the Honda itself properly grounded?"
How are you grounding the Honda?

"Mr Wizzard" wrote in message

Damn! - the RFI filter trick didn't work for the furnace after all. Got around to building an official RFI filter in an electrical box, but it all together, and it didn't work! - flame sensor kicking out.
Back to the drawing board, running experiments, come to find out that is has something to do with "grounding" (as one poster mentioned). Took all the RFI crap out of the circuit, and just ran line/neutral from the Honda eu2000i, and let the ground float, and it all works fine. I have a cheater cord which is an old 2-prong cloths iron coard, with aligator clips on the other end. Plug that into the generator, and aligator clip to just line and neutral of the 3-prong plug on the furnace, and it works. Whats the dealy-O ? I don't imagine that I can tie neutral and ground together at the generator since its an inverter. Ain't that something. when I "thought" I got it to work with the RFI torroiods and such, I realized that I was testing all of that with my trusty 2-prong cheater cord (I love that thing). So when I thought I solved it with the RFI filter, I was doing it with the ground floating (which is all that it takes to make it work).
Back out to the bench with scope in hand, will let you know what I ultimately conclude.

I missed some of the other posts so this question may have been answered... Sorry if it was. Grounding is a speciality, any more. Equal potential of the old days sometimes is just not enough with sensitive electronics. Have you grounded the generator to your electrical service, via a conductor? Scrape the paint if you have to. That way the furnace and the generator should be on the same electrical plane.
Just a thought from a tired guy, been pouring concrete in the kitchen.

"philkryder" wrote in message

Mr Wizzard wrote: Damn! - the RFI filter trick didn't work for the furnace after all. Got around to building an official RFI filter in an electrical box, but it all together, and it didn't work! - flame sensor kicking out.
Back to the drawing board, running experiments, come to find out that is has something to do with "grounding" (as one poster mentioned). Took all the RFI crap out of the circuit, and just ran line/neutral from the Honda eu2000i, and let the ground float, and it all works fine. I have a cheater cord which is an old 2-prong cloths iron coard, with aligator clips on the other end. Plug that into the generator, and aligator clip to just line and neutral of the 3-prong plug on the furnace, and it works. Whats the dealy-O ? I don't imagine that I can tie neutral and ground together at the generator since its an inverter. Ain't that something. when I "thought" I got it to work with the RFI torroiods and such, I realized that I was testing all of that with my trusty 2-prong cheater cord (I love that thing). So when I thought I solved it with the RFI filter, I was doing it with the ground floating (which is all that it takes to make it work).
Back out to the bench with scope in hand, will let you know what I ultimately conclude.
One of the earlier question was along the lines of: "?Is the Honda itself properly grounded?"
How are you grounding the Honda?

I'm not. Shall I try it? (usually operate the Honda on the concrete driveway). Maybe I can try one of them cork-screw dog hold down deals off to the side of the driveway ?
Thanks

>

"SQLit" wrote in message

"Mr Wizzard" wrote in message Damn! - the RFI filter trick didn't work for the furnace after all. Got around to building an official RFI filter in an electrical box, but it all together, and it didn't work! - flame sensor kicking out.
Back to the drawing board, running experiments, come to find out that is has something to do with "grounding" (as one poster mentioned). Took all the RFI crap out of the circuit, and just ran line/neutral from the Honda eu2000i, and let the ground float, and it all works fine. I have a cheater cord which is an old 2-prong cloths iron coard, with aligator clips on the other end. Plug that into the generator, and aligator clip to just line and neutral of the 3-prong plug on the furnace, and it works. Whats the dealy-O ? I don't imagine that I can tie neutral and ground together at the generator since its an inverter. Ain't that something. when I "thought" I got it to work with the RFI torroiods and such, I realized that I was testing all of that with my trusty 2-prong cheater cord (I love that thing). So when I thought I solved it with the RFI filter, I was doing it with the ground floating (which is all that it takes to make it work).
Back out to the bench with scope in hand, will let you know what I ultimately conclude.
I missed some of the other posts so this question may have been answered... Sorry if it was. Grounding is a speciality, any more. Equal potential of the old days sometimes is just not enough with sensitive electronics. Have you grounded the generator to your electrical service, via a conductor? Scrape the paint if you have to. That way the furnace and the generator should be on the same electrical plane.
Just a thought from a tired guy, been pouring concrete in the kitchen.

I *love* concrete work :) No, haven't tried tieing the Honda to the breaker panel, but I will right now. The Honda eu2000i is a little portable thing, so wasn't thinking that I had to do anything like that. Interesting thing is, if I just isolate the ground prong of the extension cord going over to the furnace, it work fine. If I ground the generator, arn't I gonna draw ground current betwee nthe furnace and whereever I ground the generator ?

Draw ground current, whats that, there is no such thing. Read the manual if it has a ground lug use it, a piece of wire to a pipe, just to dirt is enough. The manual will say what is needed.

"m Ransley" wrote in message

Draw ground current, whats that, there is no such thing.

No such thing as drawing ground current? If current didn't flow, you wouldn't need wires.

Read the manual if it has a ground lug use it, a piece of wire to a pipe, just to dirt is enough. The manual will say what is needed.

Here, this may not directly apply, but its good reading : http://www.deltami.gov/government/department/building/grounding.htm
"m Ransley" wrote in message

Draw ground current, whats that, there is no such thing. Read the manual if it has a ground lug use it, a piece of wire to a pipe, just to dirt is enough. The manual will say what is needed.

I totaly missunderstood you about ground current.

Mr Wizzard wrote:

"philkryder" wrote in message
Mr Wizzard wrote:
Damn! - the RFI filter trick didn't work for the furnace after all. Got around to building an official RFI filter in an electrical box, but it all together, and it didn't work! - flame sensor kicking out.
Back to the drawing board, running experiments, come to find out that is has something to do with "grounding" (as one poster mentioned). Took all the RFI crap out of the circuit, and just ran line/neutral from the Honda eu2000i, and let the ground float, and it all works fine. I have a cheater cord which is an old 2-prong cloths iron coard, with aligator clips on the other end. Plug that into the generator, and aligator clip to just line and neutral of the 3-prong plug on the furnace, and it works. Whats the dealy-O ? I don't imagine that I can tie neutral and ground together at the generator since its an inverter. Ain't that something. when I "thought" I got it to work with the RFI torroiods and such, I realized that I was testing all of that with my trusty 2-prong cheater cord (I love that thing). So when I thought I solved it with the RFI filter, I was doing it with the ground floating (which is all that it takes to make it work).
Back out to the bench with scope in hand, will let you know what I ultimately conclude.
One of the earlier question was along the lines of: "?Is the Honda itself properly grounded?"
How are you grounding the Honda?

I'm not. Shall I try it? (usually operate the Honda on the concrete driveway). Maybe I can try one of them cork-screw dog hold down deals off to the side of the driveway ?
Thanks

No, don't try to ground the portable generator at the generator that is totally unnecessary effort. Instead install a double pole double throw center off switch in place of the furnace disconect switch. One end of the switch connects the furnace to the neutral and hot of the furnace branch circuit of the homes wiring. The other end of the switch connects the furnace to the neutral and hot of a flanged inlet to which the female cord cap of an extension cord from the generator will connect. since the switch is two pole the Equipment Grounding Conductor (EGC) of the generator and the home are now interconnected. That will clear up the furnaces floating neutral problem when on generator power.
-- Tom Horne
"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous for general use." Thomas Alva Edison

That is correct and the ground is ***NOT*** a wire so it shouldn't have any current flowing in it.
"Mr Wizzard" wrote in message

"m Ransley" wrote in message
Draw ground current, whats that, there is no such thing.
No such thing as drawing ground current? If current didn't flow, you wouldn't need wires.
Read the manual if it has a ground lug use it, a piece of wire to a pipe, just to dirt is enough. The manual will say what is needed.

"Mr Wizzard" wrote in message

"SQLit" wrote in message
"Mr Wizzard" wrote in message Damn! - the RFI filter trick didn't work for the furnace after all. Got around to building an official RFI filter in an electrical box, but it all together, and it didn't work! - flame sensor kicking out.
Back to the drawing board, running experiments, come to find out that is has something to do with "grounding" (as one poster mentioned). Took all the RFI crap out of the circuit, and just ran line/neutral from the Honda eu2000i, and let the ground float, and it all works fine. I have a cheater cord which is an old 2-prong cloths iron coard, with aligator clips on the other end. Plug that into the generator, and aligator clip to just line and neutral of the 3-prong plug on the furnace, and it works. Whats the dealy-O ? I don't imagine that I can tie neutral and ground together at the generator since its an inverter. Ain't that something. when I "thought" I got it to work with the RFI torroiods and such, I realized that I was testing all of that with my trusty 2-prong cheater cord (I love that thing). So when I thought I solved it with the RFI filter, I was doing it with the ground floating (which is all that it takes to make it work).
Back out to the bench with scope in hand, will let you know what I ultimately conclude.
I missed some of the other posts so this question may have been answered... Sorry if it was. Grounding is a speciality, any more. Equal potential of the old days sometimes is just not enough with sensitive electronics. Have you grounded the generator to your electrical service, via a conductor? Scrape the paint if you have to. That way the furnace and the generator should be on the same electrical plane.
Just a thought from a tired guy, been pouring concrete in the kitchen.
I *love* concrete work :) No, haven't tried tieing the Honda to the breaker panel, but I will right now. The Honda eu2000i is a little portable thing, so wasn't thinking that I had to do anything like that. Interesting thing is, if I just isolate the ground prong of the extension cord going over to the furnace, it work fine. If I ground the generator, arn't I gonna draw ground current betwee nthe furnace and whereever I ground the generator ?

What I trying to point you towards is "equal potential"...... Same electrical plane. A generator is producing current and voltage, BUT it has no relationship to the equipment which is "grounded" to another plane, your electrical service. So when you do not use the ground it works, floating sometimes a bad thing. When you connect the ground it has problems.
In the olden days when chips were electrically beefier there was less of a problem. Now when some MBA can save $0.02 they will get a cheaper chip. Less expensive usually means less tolerance but not always. If your furnace is this sensitive it is probably time for a surge arrestor on it. But that is another subject. I use the whole house protector, plugs into the panel like a 2 pole breaker.
Get find a way to ground the generator to the electric panel. Frame to grounding conductor. Then there will be no potential difference. Be careful and if your not sure, get local help so they can see the issues.
The ground wire is there for a return path to the generator to trip the breaker at the genny. Any ground current is an indication of problems, which can be considerably dangerous.
Soars Book on Grounding at your public library. Best publication I have found with easy to understand text and lots of pictures and illustrations. If you find an older copy do not worry grounding has not changed all that much in recent history.
I am considering doing concrete counter tops. I bought an electric Gibson mixer made by Cleaform. Works like a wheelbarrow and is narrow enough to go into the kitchen doorway. Frank Lloyd Wright would be proud.

"Mr Wizzard" wrote in message

Here, this may not directly apply, but its good reading : http://www.deltami.gov/government/department/building/grounding.htm
"m Ransley" wrote in message Draw ground current, whats that, there is no such thing. Read the manual if it has a ground lug use it, a piece of wire to a pipe, just to dirt is enough. The manual will say what is needed.

Excellent you caught this. Good research.

SolarFlare wrote:

That is correct and the ground is ***NOT*** a wire so it shouldn't have any current flowing in it.
"Mr Wizzard" wrote in message
"m Ransley" wrote in message
Draw ground current, whats that, there is no such thing.
No such thing as drawing ground current? If current didn't flow, you wouldn't need wires.
Read the manual if it has a ground lug use it, a piece of wire to a pipe, just to dirt is enough. The manual will say what is needed.

" That is correct and the ground is ***NOT*** a wire so it shouldn't have any current flowing in it..."
What about the wire that runs to ground? Are you saying that no current flows through that wire? If no current flows, How small can the wire be for ground?
I recently installed a cooktop with a ground. Could I have used 24gauge wire since there is NO current?
thanks Phil

See? now *thats* the answer I was looking for! Thats a wonderfull idea. I'm goning to try that in a little bit here. If that works, then I'll try to locate a DPDT switch thats approved for home wiring. And this "flanged inlet" thing you are talking must be one of them recessed male extension cord connectors, like a "wall clock recepticle". Which would be a cleaner deal - just run the extension cord over to the furnace, plug it in, and flip the switch. That way I wouldn't have to unplug the furnace, and can actually go back to having the furnace hard-wired. Right now I got a big cord cap on the end of the BX cable coming from the furnace.
Thanks!
"Tom Horne, Electrician" wrote in message

Mr Wizzard wrote:
"philkryder" wrote in message
Mr Wizzard wrote:
Damn! - the RFI filter trick didn't work for the furnace after all. Got around to building an official RFI filter in an electrical box, but it all together, and it didn't work! - flame sensor kicking out.
Back to the drawing board, running experiments, come to find out that is has something to do with "grounding" (as one poster mentioned). Took all the RFI crap out of the circuit, and just ran line/neutral from the Honda eu2000i, and let the ground float, and it all works fine. I have a cheater cord which is an old 2-prong cloths iron coard, with aligator clips on the other end. Plug that into the generator, and aligator clip to just line and neutral of the 3-prong plug on the furnace, and it works. Whats the dealy-O ? I don't imagine that I can tie neutral and ground together at the generator since its an inverter. Ain't that something. when I "thought" I got it to work with the RFI torroiods and such, I realized that I was testing all of that with my trusty 2-prong cheater cord (I love that thing). So when I thought I solved it with the RFI filter, I was doing it with the ground floating (which is all that it takes to make it work).
Back out to the bench with scope in hand, will let you know what I ultimately conclude.
One of the earlier question was along the lines of: "?Is the Honda itself properly grounded?"
How are you grounding the Honda?

I'm not. Shall I try it? (usually operate the Honda on the concrete driveway). Maybe I can try one of them cork-screw dog hold down deals off to the side of the driveway ?
Thanks
No, don't try to ground the portable generator at the generator that is totally unnecessary effort. Instead install a double pole double throw center off switch in place of the furnace disconect switch. One end of the switch connects the furnace to the neutral and hot of the furnace branch circuit of the homes wiring. The other end of the switch connects the furnace to the neutral and hot of a flanged inlet to which the female cord cap of an extension cord from the generator will connect. since the switch is two pole the Equipment Grounding Conductor (EGC) of the generator and the home are now interconnected. That will clear up the furnaces floating neutral problem when on generator power.
-- Tom Horne
"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous for general use." Thomas Alva Edison