scratch built wind generator

Below is a link to a project that I've started that will eventually be a wind generator built from scrap Hard Disks, and dead motors...
http://www.theworkshop.ca/energy/hdgen/hdgen.htm
there are also some other related projects that have been stepping stones to this particular project
FrankG www.theworkshop.ca

"FrankG" wrote in message

Below is a link to a project that I've started that will eventually be a wind generator built from scrap Hard Disks, and dead motors...
http://www.theworkshop.ca/energy/hdgen/hdgen.htm
there are also some other related projects that have been stepping stones to this particular project
FrankG www.theworkshop.ca

I love this kind of engineering. "From trash to treasure". With today's emphasis on the environment and recycling, it is actually very hip. Nicely done website. Both entertaining and informative.
It reminds me that "what is important is the journey and not the destination".

Outstanding job!!! I love making things from old industrial stuff, but this is very advanced project.
i
On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 09:56:41 GMT, Bughunter wrote:

"FrankG" wrote in message Below is a link to a project that I've started that will eventually be a wind generator built from scrap Hard Disks, and dead motors...
http://www.theworkshop.ca/energy/hdgen/hdgen.htm
there are also some other related projects that have been stepping stones to this particular project
FrankG www.theworkshop.ca

I love this kind of engineering. "From trash to treasure". With today's emphasis on the environment and recycling, it is actually very hip. Nicely done website. Both entertaining and informative.
It reminds me that "what is important is the journey and not the destination".

--

On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 22:08:39 -0500, "FrankG" wrote:

Below is a link to a project that I've started that will eventually be a wind generator built from scrap Hard Disks, and dead motors...
http://www.theworkshop.ca/energy/hdgen/hdgen.htm
there are also some other related projects that have been stepping stones to this particular project
FrankG www.theworkshop.ca

Nice job Frank.
Wayne

Bughunter wrote:

"FrankG" wrote in message
Below is a link to a project that I've started that will eventually be a wind generator built from scrap Hard Disks, and dead motors...
http://www.theworkshop.ca/energy/hdgen/hdgen.htm
there are also some other related projects that have been stepping stones to this particular project
FrankG www.theworkshop.ca

I love this kind of engineering. "From trash to treasure". With today's emphasis on the environment and recycling, it is actually very hip. Nicely done website. Both entertaining and informative.
It reminds me that "what is important is the journey and not the destination".

Nice! I once started work on a similar project.. I used the HDD platters,and spindle motor,and glued the magnets to that with JB-weld (careful,it's magnetic.) I never got around to finishing it..still need to wind some coils.. :-)

Ignoramus16420 wrote:

Outstanding job!!! I love making things from old industrial stuff, but this is very advanced project.
i

This is the one we are starting on:
http://www.otherpower.com/17page1.html
-- Steve Spence Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html

I don't know that my ambitions run that high quite yet... in the short term I certainly would like to hit 100 to 250 watts by the spring...
Though ultimately I would be satisified with 3 towers each flying a 500Watt for providing power for the shop.
FrankG www.theworkshop.ca
"Steve Spence" wrote in message

Ignoramus16420 wrote: Outstanding job!!! I love making things from old industrial stuff, but this is very advanced project.
i
This is the one we are starting on:
http://www.otherpower.com/17page1.html
-- Steve Spence Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html

Just for Proof of concept, I put vanes on a altinator (ford of course) gen. 12 v just fine, charges batteries, inverter works great
Rick

http://www.theworkshop.ca/energy/hdgen/2/hdgen2.htm

"FrankG" wrote in message

http://www.theworkshop.ca/energy/hdgen/2/hdgen2.htm

I don't mean to discourage you, but having worked in a motor/generator repair shop, you still have a problem with your magnet/coil layout.
As I understand your design, you have 24 magnetic poles, and 8 coils. And from your description, the magnets are arranged on one disk, and the coils on another that is to be mounted very close to the magnet disk. And there will be a steel/iron plate behind the coils? That part I can't tell for sure.
Looking at how the magnets are arranged, N pole of one next to the S pole of the next, I'm not clear how the magnetic flux will pass from the pole of one, across a coil side, into the steel backing and return across another coil side back to the S pole of the neighboring magnet. It seems the flux would have an easier path to just jump from one magnet's N pole to the next magnet's S pole and only a fringe of flux would pass up wards from the disk to where the coil is spinning.
Instead of breaking the magnets in half, you might try mounting them so the N pole of one is next to the N pole of the next. Followed by it's S pole next to the S pole of the third, and so on. Then the flux from both N poles would be opposing, and would have to rise up out of the disk, to where you have the coils spinning. This would be hard to first hold in place since the magnets would naturally repel one another, but I think you'll get more voltage for a given coil setup/speed.
Another thought is that ideally the number of coils should equal the number of poles in a single phase machine. With the odd ratio of 3 poles per coil, however you connect the coils together, there will be times when the voltage developed in one will be opposing that of another. Mind, I understand that winding 24 coils to fit in the same circumference would seem to be a challenge. But it is done all the time with commercial machines by overlapping the coils. If one side of a coil is over a N pole, the other side doesn't have to be over the adjacent S pole. It can be over a S pole a couple of magnets away. If you try my idea about arranging the magnets so poles oppose, then the coil can be wound sized so when one side is at the 'gap' between two magnets, the other side can be at the 'gap' between two other magnets, some distance away. Then arrange all the coils so the left side of each one tucks under the right side of its neighbor.
You can also 'flatten' the coils, spreading the conductors wider around the circumference a bit. Don't spread them out so far that different turns in the same side of a coil span more than about 3/4 the distance between N and S pole pairs though. This spreading allows you to keep the 'thickness' of the coils down so more copper is closer to the magnets and there will be less gaps where there is no copper conductor.
If you ever do want to go three phase, you are going to need at least 3 coils for each magnetic pole, so finding ways to overlap / spread the coils could be worth the effort.
Three phase will give you smoother output with less 'cogging' when you load the unit. Or is this the reason you have so many more coils than poles, to reduce the 'cogging' effect even though it sacrifices voltage generated??
daestrom

Daestrom,
Thanks for taking the time to provide such a thoughtful post...
I have had others offer similar thoughts, though I don't think anybody had suggested alternating "Opposing" poles.
The next posting (later in January 06) will document a few variation on the magnet placement and the results with the same coils as a reference point.
So far I have retrieved 48 Single pole or half magnets from the pile of HD magnets and arranged them in a ring of 16 poles alternating N - S - N - S .... The reuslts were consistently a lower output voltage for 1 layer, 2 layers and finally 3 layers .
With 3 magnets stacked over each other over 16 poles it equates to the same quantity of magnetic material as 24 poles in 2 layers. The difference being the spacing of approx 2/3rds of a pole gap between magnets.
My rational for using "Factory" shaped single pole magnets was that I had a nagging suspicion that the act of breaking the dual pole magnets would weaken then as a result of the mechanical force and that there would be a measure of inconsistency in how accurately they parted along the division of N & S.
Over the next span of time I have available, I will try your suggestion and document accordingly, as well I feel that I can invest a bit more time with just a pair of dual-faced magnets and the "Black-Sand" to more clearly visualize the flux properties and how they are modified by adjacent magnets.
FrankG www.theworkshop.ca frank@theworkshop.ca
"daestrom" wrote in message

"FrankG" wrote in message http://www.theworkshop.ca/energy/hdgen/2/hdgen2.htm

I don't mean to discourage you, but having worked in a motor/generator repair shop, you still have a problem with your magnet/coil layout.
As I understand your design, you have 24 magnetic poles, and 8 coils. And from your description, the magnets are arranged on one disk, and the coils on another that is to be mounted very close to the magnet disk. And there will be a steel/iron plate behind the coils? That part I can't tell for sure.
Looking at how the magnets are arranged, N pole of one next to the S pole of the next, I'm not clear how the magnetic flux will pass from the pole of one, across a coil side, into the steel backing and return across another coil side back to the S pole of the neighboring magnet. It seems the flux would have an easier path to just jump from one magnet's N pole to the next magnet's S pole and only a fringe of flux would pass up wards from the disk to where the coil is spinning.
Instead of breaking the magnets in half, you might try mounting them so the N pole of one is next to the N pole of the next. Followed by it's S pole next to the S pole of the third, and so on. Then the flux from both N poles would be opposing, and would have to rise up out of the disk, to where you have the coils spinning. This would be hard to first hold in place since the magnets would naturally repel one another, but I think you'll get more voltage for a given coil setup/speed.
Another thought is that ideally the number of coils should equal the number of poles in a single phase machine. With the odd ratio of 3 poles per coil, however you connect the coils together, there will be times when the voltage developed in one will be opposing that of another. Mind, I understand that winding 24 coils to fit in the same circumference would seem to be a challenge. But it is done all the time with commercial machines by overlapping the coils. If one side of a coil is over a N pole, the other side doesn't have to be over the adjacent S pole. It can be over a S pole a couple of magnets away. If you try my idea about arranging the magnets so poles oppose, then the coil can be wound sized so when one side is at the 'gap' between two magnets, the other side can be at the 'gap' between two other magnets, some distance away. Then arrange all the coils so the left side of each one tucks under the right side of its neighbor.
You can also 'flatten' the coils, spreading the conductors wider around the circumference a bit. Don't spread them out so far that different turns in the same side of a coil span more than about 3/4 the distance between N and S pole pairs though. This spreading allows you to keep the 'thickness' of the coils down so more copper is closer to the magnets and there will be less gaps where there is no copper conductor.
If you ever do want to go three phase, you are going to need at least 3 coils for each magnetic pole, so finding ways to overlap / spread the coils could be worth the effort.
Three phase will give you smoother output with less 'cogging' when you load the unit. Or is this the reason you have so many more coils than poles, to reduce the 'cogging' effect even though it sacrifices voltage generated??
daestrom