Break-even point for home electric generator powered by natu

Home depot is selling natural-gas powered home electric generators (7 kw and larger). The price for a 7 kw system is $3000 (I think it's a turn-key system). This works out to a constant 120v/50 amp (240 v, 25 amp) supply.
If I'm comparing the cost of electricity (in cents per kwh) vs the cost of natural gas (in terms of cents per cubic meter or cubic foot) does anyone know the break-even ratio that would make it economical to generate most (or all) the electricity for your house from your natural gas supply using one of these units?
What about natural-gas-driven AC compressors? Wouldn't that be a smart choice to run your AC compressor on natural gas in the summer (when NG demand is low) ?

On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 00:02:31 -0500, Some Guy wrote:

Home depot is selling natural-gas powered home electric generators (7

You fucking asshole.
GO THE FUCK AWAY !!!!!!
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"Some Guy" wrote in message

Home depot is selling natural-gas powered home electric generators (7 kw and larger). The price for a 7 kw system is $3000 (I think it's a turn-key system). This works out to a constant 120v/50 amp (240 v, 25 amp) supply.
If I'm comparing the cost of electricity (in cents per kwh) vs the cost of natural gas (in terms of cents per cubic meter or cubic foot) does anyone know the break-even ratio that would make it economical to generate most (or all) the electricity for your house from your natural gas supply using one of these units?
What about natural-gas-driven AC compressors? Wouldn't that be a smart choice to run your AC compressor on natural gas in the summer (when NG demand is low) ?

Break even point is going to depend on a lot of factors that may be different for everyone.
What is the charge for electricity in your area ? What is the charge for gas ? How about the cost of buying the generator, and installing it ?,....then maintaining it?
I'm sure these are mainly meant for back-up/emergency power, not really to run off of all the time. But if it keeps you and your family from freezing in the dark, or saves a freezer full of meat from going bad. the cost may be well worth whatever.
AMUN

On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 00:02:31 -0500, Some Guy wrote:

Home depot is selling natural-gas powered home electric generators (7 kw and larger). The price for a 7 kw system is $3000 (I think it's a turn-key system). This works out to a constant 120v/50 amp (240 v, 25 amp) supply.
If I'm comparing the cost of electricity (in cents per kwh) vs the cost of natural gas (in terms of cents per cubic meter or cubic foot) does anyone know the break-even ratio that would make it economical to generate most (or all) the electricity for your house from your natural gas supply using one of these units?
What about natural-gas-driven AC compressors? Wouldn't that be a smart choice to run your AC compressor on natural gas in the summer (when NG demand is low) ?

Ask Home Depot how many hours is the generator expected to last. I am not sure if you would get a meaningful answer. Usually, it would not be an impressively high number of hours. Let's say that it is made like a very good automotive engine and could last 5,000 hours. (equivalent of 250,000 miles at 50 mph).
5,000 hours is 208 days. That's how long it would last if it was run 24/7. You may be able to get away with running it less if you had a battery/inverter system, but that is also big bucks, with batteries needing replacement etc.
That means that cost of the generator, amortised over its useful life, is going to be substantial.
I doubt that you would be able to get any better than 2-3 times the cost of utility supplied electricity.
i

"Some Guy" wrote in message

Home depot is selling natural-gas powered home electric generators (7 kw and larger). The price for a 7 kw system is $3000 (I think it's a turn-key system). This works out to a constant 120v/50 amp (240 v, 25 amp) supply.

I usually don't answer posts with more than one x-post. but...
Simply look up how much NG that generator takes at 50% load. Multiply times 720 to get your monthly gas usage, figure out how much that will cost, and compare to your present power bill. I guarantee you, you will have no further questions. Believe it or not, it would cost me the best part of $1000/month to run my little 4KW generator 24/30.
Please can the excessive crossposting.
Vaughn

You could just leave it at:

Ask Home Depot...

and

I am not sure if you would get a meaningful answer.

There's nobody at the box stores that even comes close to having a clue anymore.

Vaughn wrote:

Please can the excessive crossposting. Vaughn

Please tell me which ->one<- of the following 5 news groups you would have posted this question to then: alt.hvac alt.home.repair alt.energy.homepower sci.engr.heat-vent-ac misc.consumer
Perhaps I could have dropped misc.consumer or alt.hvac, but even those groups touch on the house-hold energy plants and energy-consuming devices. And my subject was very descriptive, allowing anyone to simply not read the post if they didn't want to.
I think it would be wise to focus on the subject of the post, and not get an ulcer over the relatively small and focused distribution of the post itself.

Simply look up how much NG that generator takes at 50% load. Multiply times 720 to get your monthly gas usage, figure out how much that will cost, and compare to your present power bill. I guarantee you, you will have no further questions. Believe it or not, it would cost me the best part of $1000/month to run my little 4KW generator 24/30.

We will soon be moving (1 to 2 years at most) to "smart-meters" in Ontario (which means our electricity use will be billed based on hourly use and time-of-day electricity costs). Because of collusion of the electricity-generating-cabal on the east-coast of North America, some of our nuke plants in Ontario have been shut down to reduce supply so that various plants on the grid can provide very expensive peak power to the grid. At times, we must import power from the US and pay 25 to 50 times what it normally costs us to generate an equivalent amount of power. This normally happens only on the hottest days of the summer, usually starting at 10 am and lasting until 4 pm until the load drops to the point where Ontario_supply = Ontario_demand.
Hence my question about the merits of home generation of electricity from a natural gas generator, which I agree are likely not built for 24/7 operation and (even given NG's superiority when it comes to btu/$ vs electricity) would not likely pay unless we're talking about operation only during summer peak hours.
Which leads to my related question about NG-powered air conditioning compressors, because during peak summer electric loading the culprit is usually AC units. Perhaps the simple answer to avoiding large bills in the summer is to move to a NG-powered AC compressor?

"Some Guy" wrote in message

Vaughn wrote:
Please can the excessive crossposting. Vaughn
Please tell me which ->one<- of the following 5 news groups you would have posted this question to then:
alt.hvac alt.home.repair alt.energy.homepower sci.engr.heat-vent-ac misc.consumer
Perhaps I could have dropped misc.consumer or alt.hvac, but even those groups touch on the house-hold energy plants and energy-consuming devices. And my subject was very descriptive, allowing anyone to simply not read the post if they didn't want to.
I think it would be wise to focus on the subject of the post, and not get an ulcer over the relatively small and focused distribution of the post itself.
Simply look up how much NG that generator takes at 50% load. Multiply times 720 to get your monthly gas usage, figure out how much that will cost, and compare to your present power bill. I guarantee you, you will have no further questions. Believe it or not, it would cost me the best part of $1000/month to run my little 4KW generator 24/30.
We will soon be moving (1 to 2 years at most) to "smart-meters" in Ontario (which means our electricity use will be billed based on hourly use and time-of-day electricity costs). Because of collusion of the electricity-generating-cabal on the east-coast of North America, some of our nuke plants in Ontario have been shut down to reduce supply so that various plants on the grid can provide very expensive peak power to the grid. At times, we must import power from the US and pay 25 to 50 times what it normally costs us to generate an equivalent amount of power. This normally happens only on the hottest days of the summer, usually starting at 10 am and lasting until 4 pm until the load drops to the point where Ontario_supply = Ontario_demand.
Hence my question about the merits of home generation of electricity from a natural gas generator, which I agree are likely not built for 24/7 operation and (even given NG's superiority when it comes to btu/$ vs electricity) would not likely pay unless we're talking about operation only during summer peak hours.
Which leads to my related question about NG-powered air conditioning compressors, because during peak summer electric loading the culprit is usually AC units. Perhaps the simple answer to avoiding large bills in the summer is to move to a NG-powered AC compressor?

That's what you fucking get for living in Canada. You should bow down and say thanks that the U.S. protects your wimpy butts and gives you so many free benefits.
If Canada wasn't like it is now, the U.S. might actually consider annexing it in as state #51.
Count your blessings and quit your whining.

Oscar_Lives wrote:

"Some Guy" wrote in message Vaughn wrote:
Please can the excessive crossposting. Vaughn
Please tell me which ->one<- of the following 5 news groups you would have posted this question to then:
alt.hvac alt.home.repair alt.energy.homepower sci.engr.heat-vent-ac misc.consumer
Perhaps I could have dropped misc.consumer or alt.hvac, but even those groups touch on the house-hold energy plants and energy-consuming devices. And my subject was very descriptive, allowing anyone to simply not read the post if they didn't want to.
I think it would be wise to focus on the subject of the post, and not get an ulcer over the relatively small and focused distribution of the post itself.
Simply look up how much NG that generator takes at 50% load. Multiply times 720 to get your monthly gas usage, figure out how much that will cost, and compare to your present power bill. I guarantee you, you will have no further questions. Believe it or not, it would cost me the best part of $1000/month to run my little 4KW generator 24/30.
We will soon be moving (1 to 2 years at most) to "smart-meters" in Ontario (which means our electricity use will be billed based on hourly use and time-of-day electricity costs). Because of collusion of the electricity-generating-cabal on the east-coast of North America, some of our nuke plants in Ontario have been shut down to reduce supply so that various plants on the grid can provide very expensive peak power to the grid. At times, we must import power from the US and pay 25 to 50 times what it normally costs us to generate an equivalent amount of power. This normally happens only on the hottest days of the summer, usually starting at 10 am and lasting until 4 pm until the load drops to the point where Ontario_supply = Ontario_demand.
Hence my question about the merits of home generation of electricity from a natural gas generator, which I agree are likely not built for 24/7 operation and (even given NG's superiority when it comes to btu/$ vs electricity) would not likely pay unless we're talking about operation only during summer peak hours.
Which leads to my related question about NG-powered air conditioning compressors, because during peak summer electric loading the culprit is usually AC units. Perhaps the simple answer to avoiding large bills in the summer is to move to a NG-powered AC compressor?
That's what you fucking get for living in Canada. You should bow down and say thanks that the U.S. protects your wimpy butts and gives you so many free benefits.
If Canada wasn't like it is now, the U.S. might actually consider annexing it in as state #51.
Count your blessings and quit your whining.

The USA protects Canada from an invasion from who exactly?
Hmm, who would want to invade Canada? Let me see, an ignorant asshole such as yourself?

Back in the 60s Canada was considering selling itself to the USA for $25 Billion US (they can't count properly either), $0.025 billion elsewhere, and we would all have become instant millionaires.
It was found that Canucksville people couldn't be arogant enough to fit in with the US culture and they would also lose a country to whine about having everything they didn't.
Recrossposted just like the whiner did.
"Abby Normal" wrote in message

Oscar_Lives wrote: "Some Guy" wrote in message Vaughn wrote:
Please can the excessive crossposting. Vaughn
Please tell me which ->one<- of the following 5 news groups you would have posted this question to then:
alt.hvac alt.home.repair alt.energy.homepower sci.engr.heat-vent-ac misc.consumer
Perhaps I could have dropped misc.consumer or alt.hvac, but even those groups touch on the house-hold energy plants and energy-consuming devices. And my subject was very descriptive, allowing anyone to simply not read the post if they didn't want to.
I think it would be wise to focus on the subject of the post, and not get an ulcer over the relatively small and focused distribution of the post itself.
Simply look up how much NG that generator takes at 50% load. Multiply times 720 to get your monthly gas usage, figure out how much that will cost, and compare to your present power bill. I guarantee you, you will have no further questions. Believe it or not, it would cost me the best part of $1000/month to run my little 4KW generator 24/30.
We will soon be moving (1 to 2 years at most) to "smart-meters" in Ontario (which means our electricity use will be billed based on hourly use and time-of-day electricity costs). Because of collusion of the electricity-generating-cabal on the east-coast of North America, some of our nuke plants in Ontario have been shut down to reduce supply so that various plants on the grid can provide very expensive peak power to the grid. At times, we must import power from the US and pay 25 to 50 times what it normally costs us to generate an equivalent amount of power. This normally happens only on the hottest days of the summer, usually starting at 10 am and lasting until 4 pm until the load drops to the point where Ontario_supply = Ontario_demand.
Hence my question about the merits of home generation of electricity from a natural gas generator, which I agree are likely not built for 24/7 operation and (even given NG's superiority when it comes to btu/$ vs electricity) would not likely pay unless we're talking about operation only during summer peak hours.
Which leads to my related question about NG-powered air conditioning compressors, because during peak summer electric loading the culprit is usually AC units. Perhaps the simple answer to avoiding large bills in the summer is to move to a NG-powered AC compressor?
That's what you fucking get for living in Canada. You should bow down and say thanks that the U.S. protects your wimpy butts and gives you so many free benefits.
If Canada wasn't like it is now, the U.S. might actually consider annexing it in as state #51.
Count your blessings and quit your whining.
The USA protects Canada from an invasion from who exactly?
Hmm, who would want to invade Canada? Let me see, an ignorant asshole such as yourself?

In article , Some Guy wrote:

Home depot is selling natural-gas powered home electric generators (7 kw and larger). The price for a 7 kw system is $3000 (I think it's a turn-key system). This works out to a constant 120v/50 amp (240 v, 25 amp) supply.
If I'm comparing the cost of electricity (in cents per kwh) vs the cost of natural gas (in terms of cents per cubic meter or cubic foot) does anyone know the break-even ratio that would make it economical to generate most (or all) the electricity for your house from your natural gas supply using one of these units?
What about natural-gas-driven AC compressors? Wouldn't that be a smart choice to run your AC compressor on natural gas in the summer (when NG demand is low) ?

The generator you can buy for $3K new, ISN"T ever going to be a Prime Power Unit. I suspect that you wuld be VERY Lucky to get 10K hours out of it before it failed. Running 24/7 just isn't in the cards for anything you can buy from Home Depot, Lowes, or any of those kind of places. I would think that anyone with any experience in nongrid power generation wouldrun not walk as fast as possible from any outfit that advertised such a system.......
Me who actually does generate all my own power.......

"wkearney99" wrote in message

You could just leave it at:
Ask Home Depot...
and
I am not sure if you would get a meaningful answer.
There's nobody at the box stores that even comes close to having a clue anymore.

If they were knowledgeable about it they wouldn't be working there earning $7.50/hr.

Vaughn wrote:

"Some Guy" wrote in message
Home depot is selling natural-gas powered home electric generators (7 kw and larger). The price for a 7 kw system is $3000 (I think it's a turn-key system). This works out to a constant 120v/50 amp (240 v, 25 amp) supply.
I usually don't answer posts with more than one x-post. but...
Simply look up how much NG that generator takes at 50% load. Multiply times 720 to get your monthly gas usage, figure out how much that will cost, and compare to your present power bill. I guarantee you, you will have no further questions. Believe it or not, it would cost me the best part of $1000/month to run my little 4KW generator 24/30.
Please can the excessive crossposting.
Vaughn
But 4 KW 24/30 is a lot of power.

-- The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to minimize spam. Our true address is of the form che...@prodigy.net.

"Abby Normal" wrote in message

Oscar_Lives wrote: "Some Guy" wrote in message Vaughn wrote:
Please can the excessive crossposting. Vaughn
Please tell me which ->one<- of the following 5 news groups you would have posted this question to then:
alt.hvac alt.home.repair alt.energy.homepower sci.engr.heat-vent-ac misc.consumer
Perhaps I could have dropped misc.consumer or alt.hvac, but even those groups touch on the house-hold energy plants and energy-consuming devices. And my subject was very descriptive, allowing anyone to simply not read the post if they didn't want to.
I think it would be wise to focus on the subject of the post, and not get an ulcer over the relatively small and focused distribution of the post itself.
Simply look up how much NG that generator takes at 50% load. Multiply times 720 to get your monthly gas usage, figure out how much that will cost, and compare to your present power bill. I guarantee you, you will have no further questions. Believe it or not, it would cost me the best part of $1000/month to run my little 4KW generator 24/30.
We will soon be moving (1 to 2 years at most) to "smart-meters" in Ontario (which means our electricity use will be billed based on hourly use and time-of-day electricity costs). Because of collusion of the electricity-generating-cabal on the east-coast of North America, some of our nuke plants in Ontario have been shut down to reduce supply so that various plants on the grid can provide very expensive peak power to the grid. At times, we must import power from the US and pay 25 to 50 times what it normally costs us to generate an equivalent amount of power. This normally happens only on the hottest days of the summer, usually starting at 10 am and lasting until 4 pm until the load drops to the point where Ontario_supply = Ontario_demand.
Hence my question about the merits of home generation of electricity from a natural gas generator, which I agree are likely not built for 24/7 operation and (even given NG's superiority when it comes to btu/$ vs electricity) would not likely pay unless we're talking about operation only during summer peak hours.
Which leads to my related question about NG-powered air conditioning compressors, because during peak summer electric loading the culprit is usually AC units. Perhaps the simple answer to avoiding large bills in the summer is to move to a NG-powered AC compressor?
That's what you fucking get for living in Canada. You should bow down and say thanks that the U.S. protects your wimpy butts and gives you so many free benefits.
If Canada wasn't like it is now, the U.S. might actually consider annexing it in as state #51.
Count your blessings and quit your whining.
The USA protects Canada from an invasion from who exactly?
Hmm, who would want to invade Canada? Let me see, an ignorant asshole such as yourself?

Good point.

Look at the glossy for your proposed generator.... It will tell you the input BTU/hr for various loads or consumption of NG in either cubic feet or cubic meters per hour. Your small engine is only ABOUT 15% efficient, the rest of the energy turned to heat and wasted. So simply do your homework and figure out what it would cost you on a kW/h basis.
Hmm... in Ontario, out of your pocket, taxes, delivery charges, subscriber fees and all the other nickels and dimes included, a kW/h from the utility is about 11 cents per kW/h. Your NG is around 55 cents per cubic meter. Take the BOTTOM LINE (payment due) from your bill and divide by your consumption.
Every time I run the math looking only at fuel, the NG generator is about twice as expensive than utility. This doesn't include engine/generator maintenance and replacement value amortization.
Thats why your question in this group has OFTEN (and only) been seen with a co-generation twist... trying to recover the waste heat gets things closer to break even. Liquid cooled engines are good for this, and there are methods for recovering the exhaust heat too.