water4gas

I heard about this on a radio program a few days ago. Has anybody heard about this or have any experience with this?
http://water4gas.com/
Mike

"mikeandeb" wrote in message

I heard about this on a radio program a few days ago.

Spam/Scam
Bye Vaughn

Yeah, I find it appalling that people don't understand rudimentary gas function.
The water has been broken down ino hydrogen and oxygen. In a ratio of two to one. And what do those gases do to fill their open valence shell? They combine. To form water. So maybe we should be talking about how expensive it is to make water vapor to go into the air mixture, when simply bubbling through a water jar would accomplish the same thing. Without using any electricity.
And if some idiot actually managed to keep those molecules apart till they got into the combustion chamber, it would be time to discover what embrittlement is all about, or what a modern vehicle computer does with the timing when there is engine knock from the hydrogen having a flame spread rate 8 times that of gasoline-air, or having hydrogen as part of the crankcase gases.
So even if your query was spam, I'd like to hear from someone that is really doing the Brown Gas routine.
On Dec 22, 4:14�pm, "mikeandeb" wrote:

I heard about this on a radio program a few days ago. Has anybody heard about this or have any experience with this?
http://water4gas.com/
Mike

Michael B wrote:

Yeah, I find it appalling that people don't understand rudimentary gas function.
The water has been broken down ino hydrogen and oxygen. In a ratio of two to one. And what do those gases do to fill their open valence shell? They combine. To form water. So maybe we should be talking about how expensive it is to make water vapor to go into the air mixture, when simply bubbling through a water jar would accomplish the same thing. Without using any electricity.
And if some idiot actually managed to keep those molecules apart till they got into the combustion chamber, it would be time to discover what embrittlement is all about, or what a modern vehicle computer does with the timing when there is engine knock from the hydrogen having a flame spread rate 8 times that of gasoline-air, or having hydrogen as part of the crankcase gases.
So even if your query was spam, I'd like to hear from someone that is really doing the Brown Gas routine.
On Dec 22, 4:14 pm, "mikeandeb" wrote: I heard about this on a radio program a few days ago. Has anybody heard about this or have any experience with this?
http://water4gas.com/
Mike
Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought Hydrogen implodes unless

petroleum exploding?
Just my opinion (I no way endorse this water4gas product)
David

On Dec 24, 12:25�am, "$cienceboy" wrote:

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought Hydrogen implodes unless petroleum exploding?
Just my opinion (I no way endorse this water4gas product)
David

In the atmosphere, without a containment, hydrogen functions the same way as any flammable gas in the presence of an appropriate oxidation agent. It burns. If it is in a containment vessel, it would be be seen as an explosion. Now, there COULD be some value to a small amount of hydrogen in the air-gas mixture of an auto combustion chamber. It could function to enhance the flame spread from the spark plug. But keeping that mixture to the exact amount to prevent apparent preignition(engine knock) would involve more research, in my opinion, than I have seen in the water4gas documentation.

"mikeandeb" wrote in message :I heard about this on a radio program a few days ago. Has anybody heard : about this or have any experience with this? :
The most abundant elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.
For once we have both in one post.

-> In the atmosphere, without a containment, hydrogen functions -> the same way as any flammable gas in the presence of an appropriate -> oxidation agent. It burns. If it is in a containment vessel, it would -> be -> be seen as an explosion. -> Now, there COULD be some value to a small amount of hydrogen -> in the air-gas mixture of an auto combustion chamber. It could -> function to enhance the flame spread from the spark plug. But -> keeping that mixture to the exact amount to prevent apparent -> preignition(engine knock) would involve more research, in my -> opinion, than I have seen in the water4gas documentation. About 30 years ago, when I was new to Canada and when most car engines had carburetors, "car starting fluid" was sold to help start cars in very cold weather. Basically, it was an aerosol can containing diethyl ether, which is an extremely volatile and flammable liquid. You squirted some of it into the air intake of the carburetor and then (or preferably at the same time) you turned the engine over with the starter. The engine would almost always start - often spitting flames back through the carburetor in spectacular fashion. Life was more adventurous then. dow

On Dec 23, 11:51�pm, Michael B wrote:

On Dec 24, 12:25 am, "$cienceboy" wrote: ...Hydrogen blah blah blah...

In the 1920's when gas was low-octane junk hydrogen enrichment made some sense. Then we learned how to properly refine petroleum.
In general the great piston engine ideas were used in WW2 aircraft when nations were desperate and cost or high maintenance didn't matter. Anything not tried and proven then probably isn't worth much now either, unless computer control would fix its problems.
Piston engine development stopped when jets came in, and only picked up again to help with emissions controls. The really economical gas engines, used in hybrids, use the Atkinson cycle invented in 1882. http://www.greencar.com/features/features32/
Build your own: http://www.lindsaybks.com/dgjp/djgbk/atkin/index.html
Remember that when you see some "new" idea promoted. It probably was tried 100 years ago.
Ever hear of the old state fair trick of setting the idle high and the mixture lean? When the con man dripped his special secret mix into the carb the half-starved engine roared as if the stuff was nitro. It could have been paint thinner. The old tricks can be recycled to fool each new generation.
I subscribe to Daimler's HighTechReport. The current issue claims that they are the first to make piezo direct injection in a gasoline engine work, and expect a 10% savings. "Benzin im Zylinder zu zuenden kann eine Kunst sein, und zwar dann, wenn die Kraftstoffwolke so abbrennt, dass sich zehn Prozent Spirit sparen lassen. Mit der strahlgefuehrten Benzindirekteinspritzung ist Daimler-Ingenieuren dieses Kunststueck weltweit als Ersten gelungen."
Yet mechanical fuel injection was common in prop fighters.
jw

"$cienceboy" wrote in message

Michael B wrote: Yeah, I find it appalling that people don't understand rudimentary gas function.
The water has been broken down ino hydrogen and oxygen. In a ratio of two to one. And what do those gases do to fill their open valence shell? They combine. To form water. So maybe we should be talking about how expensive it is to make water vapor to go into the air mixture, when simply bubbling through a water jar would accomplish the same thing. Without using any electricity.
And if some idiot actually managed to keep those molecules apart till they got into the combustion chamber, it would be time to discover what embrittlement is all about, or what a modern vehicle computer does with the timing when there is engine knock from the hydrogen having a flame spread rate 8 times that of gasoline-air, or having hydrogen as part of the crankcase gases.
So even if your query was spam, I'd like to hear from someone that is really doing the Brown Gas routine.
On Dec 22, 4:14 pm, "mikeandeb" wrote: I heard about this on a radio program a few days ago. Has anybody heard about this or have any experience with this?
http://water4gas.com/
Mike
Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought Hydrogen implodes unless petroleum exploding?
Just my opinion (I no way endorse this water4gas product)

I have seen small baggies filled with the hydrogen/oxygen mixture produced by charging a motorcycle battery get ignited with a time fuse. I believe "explodes" would be the right word. It was very loud.

Bob F wrote:

"$cienceboy" wrote in message Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought Hydrogen implodes unless petroleum exploding?
Just my opinion (I no way endorse this water4gas product)
I have seen small baggies filled with the hydrogen/oxygen mixture produced by charging a motorcycle battery get ignited with a time fuse. I believe "explodes" would be the right word. It was very loud.

I'll vouch for that. I once drew a spark disconnecting an overcharged car battery without turning the charger off first. Definitely exploded. Bits of battery and acid everywhere. Grateful that I wear glasses.

Tim Jackson

On Dec 24, 4:19�pm, Jim Wilkins wrote:

Yet mechanical fuel injection was common in prop fighters.

Speaking of that, so was water injection. And it gave more power. In WW2, the Mosquito had water injection. Nowadays, there is speculation about doing it for jet engines on takeoff to reduce oxides of nitrogen.
Regarding the original topic, I speculate that water vapor introduction is what helps, and that is so simple to do. I'm doing it with some swimming pool parts.

On Dec 24, 10:16�pm, Michael B wrote:

On Dec 24, 4:19�pm, Jim Wilkins wrote:
Yet mechanical fuel injection was common in prop fighters.
Speaking of that, so was water injection. And it gave more power. In WW2, the Mosquito had water injection. Nowadays, there is speculation about doing it for jet engines on takeoff to reduce oxides of nitrogen.
Regarding the original topic, I speculate that water vapor introduction is what helps, and that is so simple to do. I'm doing it with some swimming pool parts.

The water or methanol injection was to cool the combustion chamber, decrease knock, and thus allow higher boost pressure which increased power by twice the amount lost to the water. Aircraft engines need very high power for their weight for fighters, or excellent fuel economy for bombers, but usually not both. Charles Lindbergh worked out the procedures to safely operate fighter engines at low RPM and fairly high MEP to increase fuel economy and combat radius. He did this as a civilian factory rep while flying 50 combat missions in the Pacific.
When aircraft engines were used in boats and tanks they were derated to last longer and not require the intensive maintenance.
jw