ethanol fuel for fireplace

hello all,
does anyone know where i can purchase ethanol fuel for a fireplace in tennessee? i have a special ethanol fuel burner for my fireplace but i can't find any pure ethanol (denatured ethanol i guess)...i've just been using regular rubbing alcohol (70%), which works fine but i can only find it in 32 oz bottles at wally world, etc. so if anyone knows where to but denatured ethanol in gallon jugs or even 5 gallon pails shoot me a line...or if someone knows where to buy rubbing alcohol in gallon jugs that'll be fine too....thanks...

et7724@clearwire.net wrote:

does anyone know where i can purchase ethanol fuel for a fireplace in tennessee? i have a special ethanol fuel burner for my fireplace but i can't find any pure ethanol (denatured ethanol i guess)...i've just been using regular rubbing alcohol (70%), which works fine but i can only find it in 32 oz bottles at wally world, etc. so if anyone knows where to but denatured ethanol in gallon jugs or even 5 gallon pails shoot me a line...or if someone knows where to buy rubbing alcohol in gallon jugs that'll be fine too....thanks...

Isopropyl alcohol (isopropanol) 100% is easier to acquire since it's less likely to be drunk by alcoholics. I haven't tried burning it.
I use it for electrical and electronic cleaning but it's not cheap at that grade. As an experiment I did try drinking some once btw and it does work ! Not sure how advisable it is though !
Ounces are a US only measure so you screwed yourself there. My last purchase was a 2 litre container because the local 'chemist', I guess you call that pharmacist, was out of the 500ml I usually buy.
http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=m38&_nkw=isopropyl+alcohol&_sacat=See-All-Categories
Graham

et7724@clearwire.net wrote:

hello all,
does anyone know where i can purchase ethanol fuel for a fireplace in tennessee? i have a special ethanol fuel burner for my fireplace but i can't find any pure ethanol (denatured ethanol i guess)...i've just been using regular rubbing alcohol (70%), which works fine but i can only find it in 32 oz bottles at wally world, etc. so if anyone knows where to but denatured ethanol in gallon jugs or even 5 gallon pails shoot me a line...or if someone knows where to buy rubbing alcohol in gallon jugs that'll be fine too....thanks...

I would imagine the big box home stores would all have it. Maybe you need to look in other departments like paint and it might just be called denatured alcohol.

"Eeyore" wrote in message

et7724@clearwire.net wrote:
does anyone know where i can purchase ethanol fuel for a fireplace in tennessee? i have a special ethanol fuel burner for my fireplace but i can't find any pure ethanol (denatured ethanol i guess)...i've just been using regular rubbing alcohol (70%), which works fine but i can only find it in 32 oz bottles at wally world, etc. so if anyone knows where to but denatured ethanol in gallon jugs or even 5 gallon pails shoot me a line...or if someone knows where to buy rubbing alcohol in gallon jugs that'll be fine too....thanks...
Isopropyl alcohol (isopropanol) 100% is easier to acquire since it's less likely to be drunk by alcoholics. I haven't tried burning it.
I use it for electrical and electronic cleaning but it's not cheap at that grade. As an experiment I did try drinking some once btw and it does work ! Not sure how advisable it is though !
Ounces are a US only measure so you screwed yourself there. My last purchase was a 2 litre container because the local 'chemist', I guess you call that pharmacist, was out of the 500ml I usually buy.
http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=m38&_nkw=isopropyl+alcohol&_sacat=See-All-Categories
Graham

Yes Eeyore, Tennessee is still in the USA. In fact, it has a long history of producing very fine ethanol.
While the OP should have plenty of access to products of distilation including some where posion has been added to make it "Denatured", and less likely to raise the ire of the "revenooers", he could make his own.
www.running_on_alcohol.tripod.com
There should be plenty of pressure on the BATF to issue permits for fuel production stills, now a days. Add a solar concentrator to drive the process, and you should be free and clear. (Just don't get caught selling your fuel for human comsumption, but then that is often an option as well: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/25/us/25distilleries.html )
A simple solar trough concentrator should provide "hot oil" (~700 degrees) to pump through pipes in a "Mash"/"wash" filled container that would feed the still with fermented steam.
This is not an Urban endeavor though, you need a source of fermentable material and the aroma would attract considerable attention. Still, while the biodiesel types are out begging the fast food joints for their used oil, you could try and corner the market in overripe fruits & veggies.
Luck; Ken

et7724@clearwire.net wrote in news:e6776bf6-fdc8-4514-ba96-838982c326e4 @x14g2000yqk.googlegroups.com:

hello all,
does anyone know where i can purchase ethanol fuel for a fireplace in tennessee? i have a special ethanol fuel burner for my fireplace but i can't find any pure ethanol (denatured ethanol i guess)...i've just been using regular rubbing alcohol (70%), which works fine but i can only find it in 32 oz bottles at wally world, etc. so if anyone knows where to but denatured ethanol in gallon jugs or even 5 gallon pails shoot me a line...or if someone knows where to buy rubbing alcohol in gallon jugs that'll be fine too....thanks...

Maybe you could try contacting any ethanol producers in TN ? THey might give you some kind of bulk deal.
A search of ethanol and Tennesee brings up some hits:
http://www.ethanolgrainprocessors.com/
and so on.
good luck!
-z

If fireplace is vented, the cheapest source of denatured alcohol would be E85. Just consider it alcohol with 15% gasoline denaturant.
Denatured alcohol contains various substances depending on end use. The cleanest is alcohol for cosmetic use. Those for industrial use can contain benzene, methanol, xylene or some other toxic material. Pure grain alcohol may be available at your liquor store but you will pay a lot of tax. Pure alcohol is available for laboratory use but you need a permit as it is tax free.
Best bet might be to contact stove manufacturer for his suggestions.

On Nov 26, 11:17�am, Frank wrote:

If fireplace is vented, the cheapest source of denatured alcohol would be E85. �Just consider it alcohol with 15% gasoline denaturant.
Denatured alcohol contains various substances depending on end use. �The � cleanest is alcohol for cosmetic use. �Those for industrial use can contain benzene, methanol, xylene or some other toxic material. �Pure grain alcohol may be available at your liquor store but you will pay a lot of tax. �Pure alcohol is available for laboratory use but you need a permit as it is tax free.
Best bet might be to contact stove manufacturer for his suggestions.

thanks for all the replies....the fireplace is ventless so no go on the e85...i don't think i would even burn e85 in a regular fireplace because it has gasoline in it...thanks though

On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 20:41:15 -0800 (PST), et7724@clearwire.net wrote:

hello all,
does anyone know where i can purchase ethanol fuel for a fireplace in tennessee? i have a special ethanol fuel burner for my fireplace but i can't find any pure ethanol (denatured ethanol i guess)...i've just been using regular rubbing alcohol (70%), which works fine but i can only find it in 32 oz bottles at wally world, etc. so if anyone knows where to but denatured ethanol in gallon jugs or even 5 gallon pails shoot me a line...or if someone knows where to buy rubbing alcohol in gallon jugs that'll be fine too....thanks...

You should be able to find methanol at the local propane dealership. That's where I used to get mine when I raced a methanol-burning motorcycle. They use it to trap water in the propane tanks. It SHOULD be cheaper than ethanol with all that denaturing and BATF BS.
If you're going to use 55 gal drum amounts of the stuff, ask the propane place where they get it.
TN is a big state, around 500 miles across. Might help to say where you live.
I just typed "methanol supplier in Knoxville, Tennessee" into google and got 10,000 hits plus ads. google is your friend.
OK, now you have my curiosity up. I've seen alcohol heaters and understand why they make sense. Almost no CO and alcohol can be cheap depending on where you live. But a fire place? The flames are almost transparent. That seems the opposite of what you'd want in a fire place. What's the deal?
John
-- John De Armond See my website for my current email address http://www.neon-john.com http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net! Tellico Plains, Occupied TN No one can be right all of the time, but it helps to be right most of the time. -Robert Half

"Eeyore" wrote in message

et7724@clearwire.net wrote:
does anyone know where i can purchase ethanol fuel for a fireplace in tennessee? i have a special ethanol fuel burner for my fireplace but i can't find any pure ethanol (denatured ethanol i guess)...i've just been using regular rubbing alcohol (70%), which works fine but i can only find it in 32 oz bottles at wally world, etc. so if anyone knows where to but denatured ethanol in gallon jugs or even 5 gallon pails shoot me a line...or if someone knows where to buy rubbing alcohol in gallon jugs that'll be fine too....thanks...
Isopropyl alcohol (isopropanol) 100% is easier to acquire since it's less likely to be drunk by alcoholics. I haven't tried burning it.

Go to any printing supply house. Isopropanal alcohol is used in large printing presses as part of their fountain solution, it is available in 5 gallon drums.

On Wed, 26 Nov 2008 21:22:10 -0500, "EXT" wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote in message
et7724@clearwire.net wrote:
does anyone know where i can purchase ethanol fuel for a fireplace in tennessee? i have a special ethanol fuel burner for my fireplace but i can't find any pure ethanol (denatured ethanol i guess)...i've just been using regular rubbing alcohol (70%), which works fine but i can only find it in 32 oz bottles at wally world, etc. so if anyone knows where to but denatured ethanol in gallon jugs or even 5 gallon pails shoot me a line...or if someone knows where to buy rubbing alcohol in gallon jugs that'll be fine too....thanks...
Isopropyl alcohol (isopropanol) 100% is easier to acquire since it's less likely to be drunk by alcoholics. I haven't tried burning it.
Go to any printing supply house. Isopropanal alcohol is used in large printing presses as part of their fountain solution, it is available in 5 gallon drums.

Methylated spirits - AKA Methyl Hydrate is available at any paint or hardware store.
Some is actually straight methyl, some is 5% methyl and 95% ethyl. Used fot thinning and cutting shellac, among other uses. Burns clean.

In , on Thu, 27 Nov 2008 00:17:55 -0500, clare@snyder.on.ca, clare@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Methylated spirits - AKA Methyl Hydrate is available at any paint or hardware store.

In the US, that'd be Methanol, AKA Methyl Alcohol.

Some is actually straight methyl, some is 5% methyl and 95% ethyl. Used fot thinning and cutting shellac, among other uses. Burns clean.

The latter would be called denatured alcohol in TN.
-- ☯☯

On Wed, 26 Nov 2008 21:22:10 -0500, "EXT" wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote in message
et7724@clearwire.net wrote:
does anyone know where i can purchase ethanol fuel for a fireplace in tennessee? i have a special ethanol fuel burner for my fireplace but i can't find any pure ethanol (denatured ethanol i guess)...i've just been using regular rubbing alcohol (70%), which works fine but i can only find it in 32 oz bottles at wally world, etc. so if anyone knows where to but denatured ethanol in gallon jugs or even 5 gallon pails shoot me a line...or if someone knows where to buy rubbing alcohol in gallon jugs that'll be fine too....thanks...
Isopropyl alcohol (isopropanol) 100% is easier to acquire since it's less likely to be drunk by alcoholics. I haven't tried burning it.
Go to any printing supply house. Isopropanal alcohol is used in large printing presses as part of their fountain solution, it is available in 5 gallon drums.

Iso in an offset press fountain solution? Huh? What kind of press? I've run a LOT Of offset presses including in my dad's print shop and my family's newspaper web presses and I've NEVER seen alcohol in the fountain. All I've ever seen is a surfactant. Water and a drop of dishwashing detergent in the fountain tank worked just as well.
The idea is for the black (or color) areas to REPEL the fountain and take on the hydrophobic ink. The master and blanket are hydrophillic and take on the fountain, preventing ink adhesion. Alcohol would tend to solvate the ink, causing inked and white space to blur together. This is bad!
Now the blanket CLEANING solution was mostly alcohol (and a little acetone if I recall) because it DID dissolve the ink so well. Also used for roller cleanup at the end of the day.
Perhaps that's what you're thinking about when you're thinking about alcohol in the print shop. The stuff the printing supply company tried to sell us was pricey out the ying-yang. I bought from a local chemical supply house that sold iso at about 30 cents a gallon (70s, early 80s). IOW, almost no mark-up. they did charge a deposit on the 55 gal drum, though. I guess with that little margin, they needed the drums back.
Back to the OP: One other note. (numbers are from memory now so if it really matters to you, look it up) Above about 97% alcohol, the product starts getting REAL expensive. That's because ordinary fractional distillation can only get the concentration that high. It takes various chemical treatments to get it higher. Anhydrous EoH will make you want to drink the stuff when you hear the price.
As you know, anything above about 75-80% burns well. I'd go up to 95-97% just because it makes no sense to pay that much for the water of dilution.
If you're in SE TN I can suggest a couple of good places just north of Chattanooga in Bradley County. You MAY have to pay a fairly steep drum deposit so it would pay you to buy your own drum. Look in the SE TN/GA trader. There's always a guy in there selling "burn barrels". I know from buying from him that he has both open and closed top drums.
A motor oil drum would be ideal. Swish it out with some gasoline and then save the mix for starting fires with or gradually add a little at a time to the alcohol and burn it.
John

-- John De Armond See my website for my current email address http://www.neon-john.com http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net! Tellico Plains, Occupied TN If we aren't supposed to eat animals, why are they made with meat?

"Neon John" wrote in message

On Wed, 26 Nov 2008 21:22:10 -0500, "EXT" <noemail@reply.in.this.group wrote:
"Eeyore" wrote in message
et7724@clearwire.net wrote:
does anyone know where i can purchase ethanol fuel for a fireplace in tennessee? i have a special ethanol fuel burner for my fireplace but i can't find any pure ethanol (denatured ethanol i guess)...i've just been using regular rubbing alcohol (70%), which works fine but i can only find it in 32 oz bottles at wally world, etc. so if anyone knows where to but denatured ethanol in gallon jugs or even 5 gallon pails shoot me a line...or if someone knows where to buy rubbing alcohol in gallon jugs that'll be fine too....thanks...
Isopropyl alcohol (isopropanol) 100% is easier to acquire since it's less likely to be drunk by alcoholics. I haven't tried burning it.
Go to any printing supply house. Isopropanal alcohol is used in large printing presses as part of their fountain solution, it is available in 5 gallon drums.
Iso in an offset press fountain solution? Huh? What kind of press? I've run a LOT Of offset presses including in my dad's print shop and my family's newspaper web presses and I've NEVER seen alcohol in the fountain. All I've ever seen is a surfactant. Water and a drop of dishwashing detergent in the fountain tank worked just as well.
The idea is for the black (or color) areas to REPEL the fountain and take on the hydrophobic ink. The master and blanket are hydrophillic and take on the fountain, preventing ink adhesion. Alcohol would tend to solvate the ink, causing inked and white space to blur together. This is bad!
Now the blanket CLEANING solution was mostly alcohol (and a little acetone if I recall) because it DID dissolve the ink so well. Also used for roller cleanup at the end of the day.
Perhaps that's what you're thinking about when you're thinking about alcohol in the print shop.

Sorry, you are wrong. If you only used water and dishwashing detergent in the fountain solution you were not into quality printing. Alcohol is used in the fountain solution of large sheet fed presses, such as Heidelberg presses. It is circulated to the fountain through a refrigerated pump which is used to keep evaporation to a minimum.
I have worked in printing for 40 years, there are many different fountain formula and systems in use depending on press size, fountain system and type, this is one. We ran presses from 10" x 15" up to 19" x 29" sheet sizes.

inag77 wrote:

On Nov 26, 11:17 am, Frank wrote: If fireplace is vented, the cheapest source of denatured alcohol would be E85. Just consider it alcohol with 15% gasoline denaturant.
Denatured alcohol contains various substances depending on end use. The cleanest is alcohol for cosmetic use. Those for industrial use can contain benzene, methanol, xylene or some other toxic material. Pure grain alcohol may be available at your liquor store but you will pay a lot of tax. Pure alcohol is available for laboratory use but you need a permit as it is tax free.
Best bet might be to contact stove manufacturer for his suggestions.
thanks for all the replies....the fireplace is ventless so no go on the e85...i don't think i would even burn e85 in a regular fireplace because it has gasoline in it...thanks though

I wouldn't either. The pharmaceutical grade alcohol, called SD alcohol, would be cleanest you could get without tax.
Personally, I don't like breathing combustion fumes from anything.

On Thu, 27 Nov 2008 10:30:44 -0500, "EXT" wrote:

Sorry, you are wrong.

Actually, I'm not wrong. let's call it different. As in different ink and fountain formulations for different presses. Both my AB Dick single drum and my 4 color press used surfactant. I didn't buy their stuff because, having a strong chemistry background, I quickly analyzed it for what it was.
The Royal Zenith Zephyrs (4 of them) that my family's newspaper used (until they sold the paper) didn't use alcohol in the fountain either. I started limo typesetting there before I was a teenager and worked off and on from the hot lead days until offset and finally into electronic typesetting and then PC-based. The last thing I did before the paper was sold was oversee the installation of a Quark Express production system.
Frankly, I wish our press HAD used alcohol. I'd not had buy it elsewhere for my racing. The family would have gladly supplied it.
The ONLY thing you can say is that your press (or your boss's) used a different formulation than ours. I can't imagine ANY company sticking with alcohol - refrigerated or not - in this day and EPAmania age. VOCs would be out the roof. Hell, they had to change the Zephyr's cleaning system to something aqueous to cut the VOC just from clean up.
So don't bullshit me about your 40 years of making the same mistakes over and over. I'll put my print quality up against anything you ever did and I've never seen your work. I have a little certificate of appreciation from the board of a Fortune 500 company whose Annual Report I printed. As you'd know if you've done anything in that area, they're about the most picky of any market segment. yeah, done on a pissy little AB Dick 2 drum, 4 color press. Yeah, I was damned good.
Not that it matters in this context but I STILL do magazine, annual reports and similar publishing, right up to putting ink on paper. I work with a direct-to-plate jobshop now so all I do is send them the postscript file and they go from there.
Typical sh*t from an anonymous poster.
John

If you only used water and dishwashing detergent in the fountain solution you were not into quality printing. Alcohol is used in the fountain solution of large sheet fed presses, such as Heidelberg presses. It is circulated to the fountain through a refrigerated pump which is used to keep evaporation to a minimum.
I have worked in printing for 40 years, there are many different fountain formula and systems in use depending on press size, fountain system and type, this is one. We ran presses from 10" x 15" up to 19" x 29" sheet sizes. --

John De Armond See my website for my current email address http://www.neon-john.com http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net! Tellico Plains, Occupied TN Nuke the Whales!