did I damage AVR (honda generator) ?

generator is honda gx390, 6600w / surge 8000, northerntool pro series 8000, unit has total running hours under 30.
had it connected to load and suspect the ground post connection wire was not properly connected to post at other end, ie. bad ground connection may have caused it to turn off.
after running it on about 2000-2500w load for 30 minutes, lights flickered inside couple times and then shut off, there were no motors running or starting at the time, just couple inside lights, fridge, tv and radio, small a/c unit which uses only 1000w, nothing else was running.
when I ran to the generator, could detect a faint electric burn odor and now suspect I may have damaged the automatic voltage regulator.
it restarted fine (I did not reconnect to load) and I got 240/120 output voltage from the connection plug but did not want to put it back on load for fear of making things worse (?)
is the AVR easy to diagnose and replace? how sensitive are the hondas or generators in having the proper ground post connection, if that was the cause of the shut down?

On Jul 3, 8:12�pm, "Mark" wrote:

ransley wrote: How did you measure surge, with a digital meter that records the peak?, ive seen new friges that use 100w pull 700w surge, and 300w surge for AC sounds way to low.
the inverter ac definitely runs as I described and is rated 790w max and 7 amps as it starts off (yes, compressor is inverter controlled also and fully variable speed, not a two or three speed) very slowly and almost never draws more than 450w and 5 amps
fridge is fairly new but even granting that it may pull 700w, shouldn't a honda gx390 engine rated at 8000 watts, continuous 6600 watts easily handle this? it certainly has in the first 20 hours of it's operation and it didn't even speed struggle when things cycled on and off.
I also know the full load based on power company having connected a data logger when running under utility power and we tested each circuit separately and multiple circuits simultaneously. The logger recorded spikes just as they occurred within thousands of a second fraction so am very confident of the total power draw of everything that is running when I connect generator.

Unless you confirm the logger is designed for recording a spike you might use a good handheld meter to verify it

On Jul 3, 8:05�pm, "Mark" wrote:

ransley wrote: You ran the unit in the rain! I hope it had a roof over it and did not get wet. I mean that chassis ground is to protect you, not the gen, units go bad or if its wet the operator can be killed
yes, the top of the unit has a kind of lid that protects all parts in such a way that no water hits any electric parts and the powerhead is located under plastic fuel tank so also protected from rain
ok, so the grounding wire is simply to protect me and unit would continue to run even without proper ground wire, got it
not sure then why it decided to turn off this time as I had no new load starting when this occurred, both fridge and ac were running steadily, not turning off and on when it decided to flicker lights and shut off.
is there a simple way to diagnose what it will do under load to simulate the event without actually connecting to house load?

I think you made a big mistake running it in the rain, read your manual, its not rain-weather proof. Wet air is sucked through the gen and motor to cool it and 100 humidity was in the panel. The ground rod might have already have done its job and a direct short or malfunction from rain might have actualy happened.

On Jul 3, 7:38�pm, "Mark" wrote:

ransley wrote: The Gen ground post , one on the unit you wire to a ground?
right, I mean the green covered "bolt" with the marking text "Grounding Post" and I've understood reading the manual that I should always use a heavy gauge copper wire (ie. 14 gauge) and connect it to my 8-ft copper spike buried in the ground (2 ft above, 6 ft buried)
the other "end" of the wire had apparently come off the 2-ft top section and I suspect could not discharge the powerhead properly while running (I am speculating as I don't know what else may have caused it to shut down while running)
is to protect you incase its raining or it malfunctions and you go to shut it off, I move mine while the unit runs, if it doesnt work it is another issue, like defect.
sorry, don't quite understand what you write above. �It was raining and the unit was not moved while it was running.

You ran the unit in the rain! I hope it had a roof over it and did not get wet. I mean that chassis ground is to protect you, not the gen, units go bad or if its wet the operator can be killed if its not grounded when the operator touches the generator. I just have my wire attached to a piece of metal I throw on the ground, and i move it while the unit runs.

On Jul 3, 7:31�pm, "Mark" wrote:

Wade Lippman wrote: First of all, it is apparently a Northerntool with a honda engine, not a honda �generator. �Right?
right, northerntool pro 8000 with honda gx390
If the fridge and the A/C came on at the same time, that could easily have caused it to stall.
you may be thinking of a conventional ac which this is not (inverter system with variable speed everything, never exceeds 300 watts at startup, 3 amps)
oddly enough, when I've run it the 1st two weeks since new, ac and fridge have repeatedly cycled and since ac is an inverter, it never causes a surge unlike conventional systems, max amps well below 20 with all and generator rated above 30 amps
so everything that was running has stayed running previously (over 20 hours in one continous run) and nothing of the sort occurred.

How did you measure surge, with a digital meter that records the peak?, ive seen new friges that use 100w pull 700w surge, and 300w surge for AC sounds way to low. But its not honda so who knows who made what as far as quality goes. Was the load balanced with a transfer panel, how did you hook it up.

On Jul 3, 6:03�pm, "Mark" wrote:

generator is honda gx390, 6600w / surge 8000, northerntool pro series 8000, unit has total running hours under 30.
had it connected to load and suspect the ground post connection wire was not properly connected to post at other end, ie. bad ground connection may have caused it to turn off.
after running it on about 2000-2500w load for 30 minutes, lights flickered inside couple times and then shut off, there were no motors running or starting at the time, just couple inside lights, fridge, tv and radio, small a/c unit which uses only 1000w, nothing else was running.
when I ran to the generator, could detect a faint electric burn odor and now suspect I may have damaged the automatic voltage regulator.
it restarted fine (I did not reconnect to load) and I got 240/120 output voltage from the connection plug but did not want to put it back on load for fear of making things worse (?)
is the AVR easy to diagnose and replace? how sensitive are the hondas or generators in having the proper ground post connection, if that was the cause of the shut down?

The Gen ground post , one on the unit you wire to a ground? is to protect you incase its raining or it malfunctions and you go to shut it off, I move mine while the unit runs, if it doesnt work it is another issue, like defect.

"Mark" wrote in message

generator is honda gx390, 6600w / surge 8000, northerntool pro series 8000, unit has total running hours under 30. First of all, it is apparently a Northerntool with a honda engine, not a

honda generator. Right?
On the three generators I have owned the ground is not connected to anything, so the generator wouldn't much care about your ground connection. I believe that is standard on consumer generator; OSHA requires industrial generators to have the ground connected to the neutral. It should say what you have on both the generator and the owners manual. I can't see how a bad ground would affect you in either instance unless you have a device that sends current to the ground rather then to the neutral; which would be unusual.
And finally I read through the owner's manual. It doesn't say if the ground is bonded, nor does it mention having AVR. Are you sure it even has it? If the fridge and the A/C came on at the same time, that could easily have caused it to stall. Good luck.

Wade Lippman wrote:

First of all, it is apparently a Northerntool with a honda engine, not a honda generator. Right?

right, northerntool pro 8000 with honda gx390

If the fridge and the A/C came on at the same time, that could easily have caused it to stall.

you may be thinking of a conventional ac which this is not (inverter system with variable speed everything, never exceeds 300 watts at startup, 3 amps)
oddly enough, when I've run it the 1st two weeks since new, ac and fridge have repeatedly cycled and since ac is an inverter, it never causes a surge unlike conventional systems, max amps well below 20 with all and generator rated above 30 amps
so everything that was running has stayed running previously (over 20 hours in one continous run) and nothing of the sort occurred.

ransley wrote:

The Gen ground post , one on the unit you wire to a ground?

right, I mean the green covered "bolt" with the marking text "Grounding Post" and I've understood reading the manual that I should always use a heavy gauge copper wire (ie. 14 gauge) and connect it to my 8-ft copper spike buried in the ground (2 ft above, 6 ft buried)
the other "end" of the wire had apparently come off the 2-ft top section and I suspect could not discharge the powerhead properly while running (I am speculating as I don't know what else may have caused it to shut down while running)

is to protect you incase its raining or it malfunctions and you go to shut it off, I move mine while the unit runs, if it doesnt work it is another issue, like defect.

sorry, don't quite understand what you write above. It was raining and the unit was not moved while it was running.

ransley wrote:

You ran the unit in the rain! I hope it had a roof over it and did not get wet. I mean that chassis ground is to protect you, not the gen, units go bad or if its wet the operator can be killed

yes, the top of the unit has a kind of lid that protects all parts in such a way that no water hits any electric parts and the powerhead is located under plastic fuel tank so also protected from rain
ok, so the grounding wire is simply to protect me and unit would continue to run even without proper ground wire, got it
not sure then why it decided to turn off this time as I had no new load starting when this occurred, both fridge and ac were running steadily, not turning off and on when it decided to flicker lights and shut off.
is there a simple way to diagnose what it will do under load to simulate the event without actually connecting to house load?

ransley wrote:

How did you measure surge, with a digital meter that records the peak?, ive seen new friges that use 100w pull 700w surge, and 300w surge for AC sounds way to low.

the inverter ac definitely runs as I described and is rated 790w max and 7 amps as it starts off (yes, compressor is inverter controlled also and fully variable speed, not a two or three speed) very slowly and almost never draws more than 450w and 5 amps
fridge is fairly new but even granting that it may pull 700w, shouldn't a honda gx390 engine rated at 8000 watts, continuous 6600 watts easily handle this? it certainly has in the first 20 hours of it's operation and it didn't even speed struggle when things cycled on and off.
I also know the full load based on power company having connected a data logger when running under utility power and we tested each circuit separately and multiple circuits simultaneously. The logger recorded spikes just as they occurred within thousands of a second fraction so am very confident of the total power draw of everything that is running when I connect generator.

is there a simple way to diagnose what it will do under load to simulate the event without actually connecting to house load?
I think you made a big mistake running it in the rain, read your manual, its not rain-weather proof. Wet air is sucked through the gen and motor to cool it and 100 humidity was in the panel. The ground rod might have already have done its job and a direct short or malfunction from rain might have actualy happened.

Although you made some good commentary remarks, it seems that you don't know of a way to diagnose this, which is the help the OP asked for in the first place. In short, you should have just said, "no, I do not know of a way to diagnose this, but here are some observations, thoughts, etc...."
And...no, I do not know how to diagnose this problem either.

Mark wrote:

ransley wrote: How did you measure surge, with a digital meter that records the peak?, ive seen new friges that use 100w pull 700w surge, and 300w surge for AC sounds way to low.
the inverter ac definitely runs as I described and is rated 790w max and 7 amps as it starts off (yes, compressor is inverter controlled also and fully variable speed, not a two or three speed) very slowly and almost never draws more than 450w and 5 amps
fridge is fairly new but even granting that it may pull 700w, shouldn't a honda gx390 engine rated at 8000 watts, continuous 6600 watts easily handle this? it certainly has in the first 20 hours of it's operation and it didn't even speed struggle when things cycled on and off.
I also know the full load based on power company having connected a data logger when running under utility power and we tested each circuit separately and multiple circuits simultaneously. The logger recorded spikes just as they occurred within thousands of a second fraction so am very confident of the total power draw of everything that is running when I connect generator. Hmmm,

Inverter running off AC? Conventionally inverter runs off DC for AC device.

Tony Hwang wrote:

Inverter running off AC? Conventionally inverter runs off DC for AC device.

the ac is a self-contained inverter system, built that way by japanese manufacturer. when it starts, you can not hear any sound due to the superslow speed of compressor which takes several minutes to reach running speed and it constantly varies it according to sensors in the indoor blower computer board. even when running at full speed it remains silent.
the inverter converts AC to DC and back to AC, thus apparently producing a best case sine wave (what I've read from the manufacturer white papers)

On Jul 3, 8:23�pm, Abe wrote:

is there a simple way to diagnose what it will do under load to simulate the event without actually connecting to house load?
I think you made a big mistake running it in the rain, read your manual, its not rain-weather proof. �Wet air is sucked through the gen and motor to cool it and 100 humidity was in the panel. The ground rod might have already have done its job and a direct short or malfunction from rain might have actualy happened.
Although you made some good commentary remarks, it seems that you don't know of a way to diagnose this, which is the help the OP asked for in the first place. In short, you should have just said, "no, I do not know of a way to diagnose this, but here are some observations, thoughts, etc...."
And...no, I do not know how to diagnose this problem either.

OP said it still runs and puts out voltage, actualy he doesnt know if anything is wrong, I said he should try it, it could be simply low oil or alot of other things IF it doesnt work right but he doesnt even know, my 7500w unit says its not weatherproof, I would not want it rained upon water goes most anywhere and this is air cooled with water going anywhere it wants to. Its not weather sealed..