ETHANOL: HOW BRAZIL BEATS THE U.S.

"donquijote1954" wrote in message

Europe's cars: 40 percent are diesel

In the UK about 10% are. Diesel is more expensive than petrol and heavy bills when they go wrong. I hate the dirty, smelly, noisy, polluting things.

"LongmuirG" wrote in message

donquijote1954 quoted someone (Christian Science Monitor) saying: "The biggest hole in our [US] policy today is fuel taxation," he [Lee Schipper] adds. "Tax increases are something Americans should do but don't know how to do, and I wonder if they will ever be able to.
Dangerous and stupid talk!

You obviously don't want to give up your 6 litre polluting engine. Higher prices do work. Despite higher fuel prices, offset by using less fuel and lower priced smaller cars anyhow, it works.

"News" wrote in message

"LongmuirG" wrote in message donquijote1954 quoted someone (Christian Science Monitor) saying: "The biggest hole in our [US] policy today is fuel taxation," he [Lee Schipper] adds. "Tax increases are something Americans should do but don't know how to do, and I wonder if they will ever be able to.
Dangerous and stupid talk!
You obviously don't want to give up your 6 litre polluting engine. Higher prices do work. Despite higher fuel prices, offset by using less fuel and lower priced smaller cars anyhow, it works.

The problem with high gasoline taxes is that they are regressive. It hurts the poor the most and the the wealthy don't seem to mind. Now, an oil import fee might be ok. Since the oil companies made $112 billion in profit in 2005, it might just do the trick.

SJC wrote:

"News" wrote in message
"LongmuirG" wrote in message donquijote1954 quoted someone (Christian Science Monitor) saying: "The biggest hole in our [US] policy today is fuel taxation," he [Lee Schipper] adds. "Tax increases are something Americans should do but don't know how to do, and I wonder if they will ever be able to.
Dangerous and stupid talk!
You obviously don't want to give up your 6 litre polluting engine. Higher prices do work. Despite higher fuel prices, offset by using less fuel and lower priced smaller cars anyhow, it works.
The problem with high gasoline taxes is that they are regressive.

True that it's a problem, not true that it's *the* problem. Too much fossil fuel is being burnt. The profits on it support a large fraction of the civil service. Solution: give them more! I don't think so.
--- Graham Cowan, former hydrogen fan Boron: internal combustion, nuclear cachet http://tinyurl.com/4xt8g

The mysteriously named "News" responded:

You obviously don't want to give up your 6 litre polluting engine. Higher prices do work. Despite higher fuel prices, offset by using less fuel and lower priced smaller cars anyhow, it works.

It is often a good idea to read the post before doing a knee-jerk response. If you had taken the time to read that to which you claimed you were responding, you would have seen no disagreement with the proposition that "Higher prices do work".
The issue was the distribution of the "economic rent" element associated with consumer prices which are far above the true costs (e.g., gasoline in Europe). In the long run, it is not sustainable for consumer governments to claim the lion's share of a high unearned economic rent -- and some European governments are taking about 4 times as much profit from oil as the producing governments.

SJC wrote:

The problem with high gasoline taxes is that they are regressive. It hurts the poor the most and the the wealthy don't seem to mind. Now, an oil import fee might be ok. Since the oil companies made $112 billion in profit in 2005, it might just do the trick.

It doesn't require rocket science: TAX GASOLINE AND INVEST IT IN ALTERNATIVE TRANSPORTATION WHILE PROMOTING SOCIAL PROGRAMS.

"donquijote1954" wrote in message

SJC wrote:
The problem with high gasoline taxes is that they are regressive. It hurts the poor the most and the the wealthy don't seem to mind. Now, an oil import fee might be ok. Since the oil companies made $112 billion in profit in 2005, it might just do the trick.
It doesn't require rocket science: TAX GASOLINE AND INVEST IT IN ALTERNATIVE TRANSPORTATION WHILE PROMOTING SOCIAL PROGRAMS.

I do not know what country you are from, but in America the Republican Party does not like taxes nor social programs. However, no one ever accused them of being rocket scientists.

SJC wrote:

"donquijote1954" wrote in message
SJC wrote:
The problem with high gasoline taxes is that they are regressive. It hurts the poor the most and the the wealthy don't seem to mind. Now, an oil import fee might be ok. Since the oil companies made $112 billion in profit in 2005, it might just do the trick.
It doesn't require rocket science: TAX GASOLINE AND INVEST IT IN ALTERNATIVE TRANSPORTATION WHILE PROMOTING SOCIAL PROGRAMS.
I do not know what country you are from, but in America the Republican Party does not like taxes nor social programs. However, no one ever accused them of being rocket scientists.

I know that much since I live in the jungle. Here lions use rocket scientists to explore life in other planets while ignoring the plight of...
HOW THE LION BENEFITS FROM THE LITTLE ANIMALS' POVERTY
One day all the little animals went up to the King of the Jungle and complained about their poverty, and in particular about the fact that every time, during the dry season, they had to travel long distances to drink the precious fluid, and demanded a WATER WELL be built for them... They cited how the resources that they contributed to the kingdom were wasted in WARS and EXTRAVAGANT PROJECTS to the tastes of the King... He, however, replied with all kinds of excuses: the lack of resources, that it wasn't a matter of him not wanting it, but that it was a matter of "priorities" --which was one of his favorite words...
Meanwhile, an Owl --who had very good eyes-- had been observing life in the jungle, and thought this way: "Every time there's a dry season the little animals must come to the little dirty waterhole where the Lion waits for them... Had they been well fed and strong, he would have had to run after them and even risk resistance. And, more importantly, the little animals are forced to fight the Lion's wars as the quick way out of poverty..."
And that's how the Owl landed an important --and well paid-- post in the brand new Astronomy Department created by the King of the Jungle --to the effect of exploring life in other planets...
WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote

SJC screamed:

It doesn't require rocket science: TAX GASOLINE AND INVEST IT IN ALTERNATIVE TRANSPORTATION WHILE PROMOTING SOCIAL PROGRAMS.

Let's look at the real world. European governments have been putting high taxes on gasoline for some time. And the results --
Mercedes-Benz, Rolls Royce, Ferrari etc turn out the gas guzzlers of the world -- for rich people, of course. Alternative transportation after decades of high taxes is ho-hum -- the Chinese have a magnetic levitation train, the Europeans don't; the great subway & commuter train systems of certain European cities are a legacy from the days of colonial Empires for the most part. And the poor people? Who among the European elites gives a damn! They can walk, does them good.
So what was your point about taxing gasoline?

SJC screamed:

It doesn't require rocket science: TAX GASOLINE AND INVEST IT IN ALTERNATIVE TRANSPORTATION WHILE PROMOTING SOCIAL PROGRAMS.

Let's look at the real world. European governments have been putting high taxes on gasoline for some time. And the results --
Mercedes-Benz, Rolls Royce, Ferrari etc turn out the gas guzzlers of the world -- for rich people, of course. Alternative transportation after decades of high taxes is ho-hum -- the Chinese have a magnetic levitation train, the Europeans don't; the great subway & commuter train systems of certain European cities are a legacy from the days of colonial Empires for the most part. And the poor people? Who among the European elites gives a damn! They can walk, does them good.
So what was your point about taxing gasoline?

"LongmuirG" wrote in message

SJC screamed: It doesn't require rocket science: TAX GASOLINE AND INVEST IT IN ALTERNATIVE TRANSPORTATION WHILE PROMOTING SOCIAL PROGRAMS.
You have attributed this "screaming" to the wrong person.

Let's look at the real world. European governments have been putting high taxes on gasoline for some time. And the results --
Mercedes-Benz, Rolls Royce, Ferrari etc turn out the gas guzzlers of the world -- for rich people, of course. Alternative transportation after decades of high taxes is ho-hum -- the Chinese have a magnetic levitation train, the Europeans don't; the great subway & commuter train systems of certain European cities are a legacy from the days of colonial Empires for the most part. And the poor people? Who among the European elites gives a damn! They can walk, does them good.
So what was your point about taxing gasoline?

LongmuirG wrote:

SJC screamed: It doesn't require rocket science: TAX GASOLINE AND INVEST IT IN ALTERNATIVE TRANSPORTATION WHILE PROMOTING SOCIAL PROGRAMS.
Let's look at the real world. European governments have been putting high taxes on gasoline for some time. And the results --
Mercedes-Benz, Rolls Royce, Ferrari etc turn out the gas guzzlers of the world -- for rich people, of course.

Not a very Smart answer

Alternative transportation after decades of high taxes is ho-hum -- the Chinese have a magnetic levitation train, the Europeans don't; the great subway & commuter train systems of certain European cities are a legacy from the days of colonial Empires for the most part.

Very ignorant.

And the poor people? Who among the European elites gives a damn! They can walk, does them good.

You haven't done your research.

So what was your point about taxing gasoline?

SJC wrote:

You have attributed this "screaming" to the wrong person.

True. I apologize to SJC for misattributing the quotation to him.
The SCREAMER in fact was "donquijote1954".
My bad!

"SJC" wrote in message
"News" wrote in message

"LongmuirG" wrote in message donquijote1954 quoted someone (Christian Science Monitor) saying: "The biggest hole in our [US] policy today is fuel taxation," he [Lee Schipper] adds. "Tax increases are something Americans should do but don't know how to do, and I wonder if they will ever be able to.
Dangerous and stupid talk!
You obviously don't want to give up your 6 litre polluting engine. Higher prices do work. Despite higher fuel prices, offset by using less fuel and lower priced smaller cars anyhow, it works.

The problem with high gasoline taxes is that they are regressive. It hurts the poor the most and the the wealthy don't seem to mind. <<<<
Then the poor get more economical cars instead of gas guzzlers, then the market responds with economical cars. It is really that simple.
BTW, the UK this afternoon announced a car pollution tax. The more polluting the more road tax you pay. The less polluting the less the road tax, to right down to zero for hybrids. Then people can understand what the tax is about. Each year in the UK we have to pay road tax (I think like your plate) to maintain and build the roads.
"Mr Brown said he rejected calls for the abolition of the climate change levy and instead would index the charge in line with inflation from 2007 to cut CO2 emissions further
He would propose a World Bank scheme to help developed economies to invest in new forms of energy in developing nations
A new £1bn energy and environmental research institute was being set up, funded by government and private industry
To make homes more environmentally friendly, Mr Brown promised new incentives for piloting "smart metering" and a new labelling scheme for energy efficient goods to make homes greener
A quarter of a million extra homes would be insulated over the next two years
Cars with the lowest rate of emissions would pay no vehicle excise duty but the 1% of most polluting cars would pay £210
Mr Brown postponed the usual annual inflation increase in fuel duty until 1 September "
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4832848.stm
Sounds OK to me. Environmentalists slagged him for not increasing fuel tax at the pumps. I suppose you can't win everything.

"LongmuirG" wrote in message

SJC screamed: It doesn't require rocket science: TAX GASOLINE AND INVEST IT IN ALTERNATIVE TRANSPORTATION WHILE PROMOTING SOCIAL PROGRAMS.
Let's look at the real world. European governments have been putting high taxes on gasoline for some time. And the results --
Mercedes-Benz, Rolls Royce, Ferrari etc turn out the gas guzzlers of the world -- for rich people, of course. Alternative transportation after decades of high taxes is ho-hum -- the Chinese have a magnetic levitation train, the Europeans don't; the great subway & commuter train systems of certain European cities are a legacy from the days of colonial Empires for the most part.

The Underground? What are you on?