Ideas for solar power in home --

Hi everyone,
I live in Central Texas where we have very warm summers plus with our electric cost going up (currently at 13.75 cents per kWh and going up monthly it seems) I'm looking at alternative ways to bring the bill down.
Ideally I'd love to convert as much to Solar as possible, but I don't have thousands to spend on doing it. I'd like to start working on a system that starts small, maybe one solar panel and a couple of batteries to run some lights, the TV, and possibly other small appliances, and eventually grow from there.
I have no idea how to calculate watts and amps useage from batteries and what kind of recharging time or power I'd need from solar panels. Also do I need special types of batteries to get 110 volts or is it feasible to use 12 volt batteries for such a project.
Thanks for any ideas or starting points --
Sam

On 6 Feb 2006 11:36:05 -0800, "Alex" wrote:

I live in Central Texas where we have very warm summers plus with our electric cost going up (currently at 13.75 cents per kWh and going up monthly it seems) I'm looking at alternative ways to bring the bill down.
Ideally I'd love to convert as much to Solar as possible, but I don't have thousands to spend on doing it. I'd like to start working on a system that starts small, maybe one solar panel and a couple of batteries to run some lights, the TV, and possibly other small appliances, and eventually grow from there.

If all you want to do is bring your electric bill down, then forget solar for now. It is great for heating, but the payback is a long time on electricity.
Instead I suggest that you look very closely at your biggest electrical load. It is probably your air conditioner. By comparison, your lights and TV comsume almost nothing. Look at lifestyle changes to reduce the need for air conditioning by conditioning only the rooms you are actually in, and only when you are in them, and only to the mininal extent necessary. Reduce air infiltration and reduce solar gain in the summer by sealing aroung windows or planting trees to shade your windows. See if your attic is getting too hot and radiating down into your living space. If so, install and attic vent - preferably one that does not use electricity. This may involve enlarging the venting on your overhangs too. All these boring measures will make a much bigger dent in your heating bill than anything you could do with solar without spending "thousands".
Robert Scott Ypsilanti, Michigan

"Alex" wrote in message

Hi everyone,
I live in Central Texas where we have very warm summers plus with our electric cost going up (currently at 13.75 cents per kWh and going up monthly it seems) I'm looking at alternative ways to bring the bill down.
Ideally I'd love to convert as much to Solar as possible, but I don't have thousands to spend on doing it. I'd like to start working on a system that starts small, maybe one solar panel and a couple of batteries to run some lights, the TV, and possibly other small appliances, and eventually grow from there.
I have no idea how to calculate watts and amps useage from batteries and what kind of recharging time or power I'd need from solar panels. Also do I need special types of batteries to get 110 volts or is it feasible to use 12 volt batteries for such a project.
Thanks for any ideas or starting points --
Sam

Look at COSTCO and Harbor Freight. Both sell small systems. What your going to find pretty fast is that other than lighting and some non-heating appliances solar is a LOT MORE expensive than grid power.
A non moving 100 watt panel will generate ~50-60% day in and out when there is sun. A moving panel might get up to 80-90%. Opps you said not much money.... Then there are the batteries and inverters. Gad there are tons of inverters most are not sine wave and that starts another discussion.
Want to save money? Reinsulated the attic, change to CF bulbs, shade screen all direct sun windows. Put a timer on the ole water heater, install a set back t-stat. Check all windows and doors for leaks and repair as necessary.
Your water heater can be a large part of your electric bill. A solar water heater can help a lot on that load. I had a 4 x 10 flat plate on a home that I owned. 8 months a year it gave me all the hot water a person could stand. 2 months a year is was better than 60%. 2 Months a year it became not much other than a tempering tank and the electric back up ran then.
If your HVAC is older than 5 years you might think about spending several thousand dollars on a more efficient one. I would do the above first. Check with your local utility and state and see what they are pushing this year.

"Alex" wrote in message

Hi everyone,
I live in Central Texas where we have very warm summers plus with our electric cost going up (currently at 13.75 cents per kWh and going up monthly it seems) I'm looking at alternative ways to bring the bill down.
Ideally I'd love to convert as much to Solar as possible, but I don't have thousands to spend on doing it. I'd like to start working on a system that starts small, maybe one solar panel and a couple of batteries to run some lights, the TV, and possibly other small appliances, and eventually grow from there.
I have no idea how to calculate watts and amps useage from batteries and what kind of recharging time or power I'd need from solar panels. Also do I need special types of batteries to get 110 volts or is it feasible to use 12 volt batteries for such a project.
As others have said you would do best to start with reducing your

consumption first.
Your 110V is AC (alternating current) whilst batteries are DC (direct current). To convert DC to AC you need an inverter which can be got for surprisingly little cash.
Converting watts to amps and volts is fairly easy. Watts = amps multiplied by volts. or W=IV where I = amps. So a 60 watt 110 Volt bulb would take 60/110 or about 0.5Amps. If you were to run that from a battery via an inverter you would still be taking 60W out of your battery so that would be 60/12 = 5Amps (assuming your inverter is 100% efficient which it isn't).
Now you have Amp Hours which is the capacity of your battery. A 1AH battery will give you 1 amp for one hour. So to run your 60W bulb for one hour you would need a 5 amp hour battery (again assuming 100% efficiency). To run it for say 4 hours for reading in the evening would require a 20 amp hour battery. Probably best to add at least 20% to that for the inefficiency of the invertor.
-- Malc
"Ah, that did it. Spare brain in action, I'm ready to go again!"

"SQLit" wrote in message

"Alex" wrote in message Hi everyone,
I live in Central Texas where we have very warm summers plus with our electric cost going up (currently at 13.75 cents per kWh and going up monthly it seems) I'm looking at alternative ways to bring the bill down.
Ideally I'd love to convert as much to Solar as possible, but I don't have thousands to spend on doing it. I'd like to start working on a system that starts small, maybe one solar panel and a couple of batteries to run some lights, the TV, and possibly other small appliances, and eventually grow from there.
I have no idea how to calculate watts and amps useage from batteries and what kind of recharging time or power I'd need from solar panels. Also do I need special types of batteries to get 110 volts or is it feasible to use 12 volt batteries for such a project.
Thanks for any ideas or starting points --
Sam
Look at COSTCO and Harbor Freight. Both sell small systems. What your going to find pretty fast is that other than lighting and some non-heating appliances solar is a LOT MORE expensive than grid power.
A non moving 100 watt panel will generate ~50-60% day in and out when there is sun. A moving panel might get up to 80-90%. Opps you said not much money.... Then there are the batteries and inverters. Gad there are tons of inverters most are not sine wave and that starts another discussion.
Want to save money? Reinsulated the attic, change to CF bulbs, shade screen all direct sun windows. Put a timer on the ole water heater, install a set back t-stat. Check all windows and doors for leaks and repair as necessary.
Your water heater can be a large part of your electric bill. A solar water heater can help a lot on that load. I had a 4 x 10 flat plate on a home that I owned. 8 months a year it gave me all the hot water a person could stand. 2 months a year is was better than 60%. 2 Months a year it became not much other than a tempering tank and the electric back up ran then.
If your HVAC is older than 5 years you might think about spending several thousand dollars on a more efficient one. I would do the above first. Check with your local utility and state and see what they are pushing this year.
I agree, AC is a big user of power. Venting the attic and overhangs or awnings

can be a far more cost effective solution to reducing electricity bills. Solar thermal hot water would be good, if you have electric water heat.

In alt.solar.photovoltaic Alex wrote:

I live in Central Texas where we have very warm summers plus with our electric cost going up (currently at 13.75 cents per kWh and going up monthly it seems) I'm looking at alternative ways to bring the bill down.

Visit your local power agency's web site. They probably have pages about advice for reducing your bill, before involving solar.
They should also have pages about the solar rebates available. http://www.dsireusa.org/library/includes/map2.cfm?CurrentPageID=1&State=TX
Austin looks like it has some programs.
-- --- Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8,-122.5

Visit this page and see what it says. It is a calculator for solar system sizing.
http://dsjscrd.gotdns.com/calc
Also, visit otherpower.com and on IRC, irc.anotherpower.com and join #otherpower. Lots of brians there! Lots of math and calculations people, too!
Doug
Alex wrote:

Hi everyone,
I live in Central Texas where we have very warm summers plus with our electric cost going up (currently at 13.75 cents per kWh and going up monthly it seems) I'm looking at alternative ways to bring the bill down.
Ideally I'd love to convert as much to Solar as possible, but I don't have thousands to spend on doing it. I'd like to start working on a system that starts small, maybe one solar panel and a couple of batteries to run some lights, the TV, and possibly other small appliances, and eventually grow from there.
I have no idea how to calculate watts and amps useage from batteries and what kind of recharging time or power I'd need from solar panels. Also do I need special types of batteries to get 110 volts or is it feasible to use 12 volt batteries for such a project.
Thanks for any ideas or starting points --
Sam

Alex wrote:

Hi everyone,
I live in Central Texas where we have very warm summers plus with our electric cost going up (currently at 13.75 cents per kWh and going up monthly it seems) I'm looking at alternative ways to bring the bill down.
Ideally I'd love to convert as much to Solar as possible, but I don't have thousands to spend on doing it. I'd like to start working on a system that starts small, maybe one solar panel and a couple of batteries to run some lights, the TV, and possibly other small appliances, and eventually grow from there.
I have no idea how to calculate watts and amps useage from batteries and what kind of recharging time or power I'd need from solar panels. Also do I need special types of batteries to get 110 volts or is it feasible to use 12 volt batteries for such a project.
Thanks for any ideas or starting points --
Sam
Hi Alex,

As others have already mentioned, solar electricity (PV) is not the best way to save energy if you are on a budget.
I'd think about taking this approach: - Go through the electric loads in your house as if you were going to put in a PV system -- paying $8 to $10 per peak watt for initial installation of a PV system makes most people real believers in electricity conservation. Some people report cutting there power consumption by 50% or more. Having a Kill-A-Watt meter helps in figuring out where the power is going. But, after you do this don't put the PV system in -- use a fraction of the PV money for the items below.
- Do the best you can to bring your insulation levels up and your air infiltration down -- this will help both your heating and cooling bill. Here is some info to start with: http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/Conservation/conservation.htm
- Think about using a solar water heater. This is probably the most cost effective solar investment. It is many times times more cost effective than energy from solar PV. Many solar water heating systems are simple, and make good DIY projects if you are so inclined. Some info to start with here: http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/WaterHeating/water_heating.htm
- Take a look at this section on passive and simple active cooling techniques, and see if any of them are applicable to your house/climate: http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/Cooling/passive_cooling.htm
- Think about using solar space heating. Solar thermal collectors that might contribute up to about 30% of your heating needs can be built for less than a $1000 (potentially much less). These are simple systems that don't require complex thermal storage. Some information to get started with: http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/SpaceHeating/Space_Heating.htm
Good luck with your project!
Gary

--
Gary
www.BuildItSolar.com gary@BuildItSolar.com "Build It Yourself" Solar Projects




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Try my calculator and see if it gives you useful information.
http://dsjscrd.gotdns.com/calc
Doug
Alex wrote:

Hi everyone,
I live in Central Texas where we have very warm summers plus with our electric cost going up (currently at 13.75 cents per kWh and going up monthly it seems) I'm looking at alternative ways to bring the bill down.
Ideally I'd love to convert as much to Solar as possible, but I don't have thousands to spend on doing it. I'd like to start working on a system that starts small, maybe one solar panel and a couple of batteries to run some lights, the TV, and possibly other small appliances, and eventually grow from there.
I have no idea how to calculate watts and amps useage from batteries and what kind of recharging time or power I'd need from solar panels. Also do I need special types of batteries to get 110 volts or is it feasible to use 12 volt batteries for such a project.
Thanks for any ideas or starting points --
Sam

Doug Simpson wrote:

Visit this page and see what it says. It is a calculator for solar system sizing.
http://dsjscrd.gotdns.com/calc
Also, visit otherpower.com and on IRC, irc.anotherpower.com and join #otherpower. Lots of brians there! Lots of math and calculations people,

Should have been brains, not brians!

too!
Doug
Alex wrote:
Hi everyone,
I live in Central Texas where we have very warm summers plus with our electric cost going up (currently at 13.75 cents per kWh and going up monthly it seems) I'm looking at alternative ways to bring the bill down.
Ideally I'd love to convert as much to Solar as possible, but I don't have thousands to spend on doing it. I'd like to start working on a system that starts small, maybe one solar panel and a couple of batteries to run some lights, the TV, and possibly other small appliances, and eventually grow from there.
I have no idea how to calculate watts and amps useage from batteries and what kind of recharging time or power I'd need from solar panels. Also do I need special types of batteries to get 110 volts or is it feasible to use 12 volt batteries for such a project.
Thanks for any ideas or starting points --
Sam

"Alex" wrote in message

Hi everyone,
I live in Central Texas where we have very warm summers plus with our electric cost going up (currently at 13.75 cents per kWh and going up monthly it seems) I'm looking at alternative ways to bring the bill down.
Ideally I'd love to convert as much to Solar as possible, but I don't have thousands to spend on doing it. I'd like to start working on a system that starts small, maybe one solar panel and a couple of batteries to run some lights, the TV, and possibly other small appliances, and eventually grow from there.

Be careful here Sam as it is easy to "put off" growing a system and you must have a burning desire to keep growing that initial system.

I have no idea how to calculate watts and amps useage from batteries and what kind of recharging time or power I'd need from solar panels. Also do I need special types of batteries to get 110 volts or is it feasible to use 12 volt batteries for such a project.

A 400 watt peak, 200 watt continuous and one good pannel and a deep cycle 12 volt battery will run a small computer or a small television and a lamp with a 9 watt florescent bulb. a small charge controller can be had on ebay for about $25 and the battery and the inverter are available on the net or Walmart.
C YA
Mitch

Thanks for any ideas or starting points --
Sam

"Mitchell Dickson" wrote in message

"Alex" wrote in message Hi everyone,
I live in Central Texas where we have very warm summers plus with our electric cost going up (currently at 13.75 cents per kWh and going up monthly it seems) I'm looking at alternative ways to bring the bill down.
Ideally I'd love to convert as much to Solar as possible, but I don't have thousands to spend on doing it. I'd like to start working on a system that starts small, maybe one solar panel and a couple of batteries to run some lights, the TV, and possibly other small appliances, and eventually grow from there.
Be careful here Sam as it is easy to "put off" growing a system and you must have a burning desire to keep growing that initial system.
I have no idea how to calculate watts and amps useage from batteries and what kind of recharging time or power I'd need from solar panels. Also do I need special types of batteries to get 110 volts or is it feasible to use 12 volt batteries for such a project.
A 400 watt peak, 200 watt continuous and one good pannel and a deep cycle 12 volt battery will run a small computer or a small television and a lamp with a 9 watt florescent bulb. a small charge controller can be had on ebay for about $25 and the battery and the inverter are available on the net or Walmart.
C YA
Mitch

Why dooesn't Home Depot or Lowes, WalMart, etc stock solar panels? They have solar accent lighting, so there are micropanels there, but where are the panels themselves for mass distribution? We won;t be able to go solar enough without the help of the megacorporations chipping in. FREE US FROM THE OLD SCHOOL POLLUTION REGIME! Power to the people, etc. Tell the gays and abortion activists to shut up and to get with the program of helping the people of the USA. I am personally sick of the lackluster progress of our society.

Thanks for any ideas or starting points --
Sam

Johnny wrote: ....

Why dooesn't Home Depot or Lowes, WalMart, etc stock solar panels? They have solar accent lighting, so there are micropanels there, but where are the panels themselves for mass distribution? ....

I guess they don't stock them because not enough people buy them. There is a kind of home appliances supermarket here in California called Frys which stocks solar panels so they do show up in retail stores.
Anthony

"Anthony Matonak" wrote in message

Johnny wrote: ... Why dooesn't Home Depot or Lowes, WalMart, etc stock solar panels? They have solar accent lighting, so there are micropanels there, but where are the panels themselves for mass distribution? ...
I guess they don't stock them because not enough people buy them.

More people would buy them if they stocked them. Do you agree?

There is a kind of home appliances supermarket here in California called Frys which stocks solar panels so they do show up in retail stores.

Thank you for the info, but in South Carolina can I get Frys to ship to me?

Anthony

In message , Johnny writes

"Anthony Matonak" wrote in message
I guess they don't stock them because not enough people buy them.
More people would buy them if they stocked them. Do you agree?

Yes certainly, though stocking them doesn't mean that they'll sell in significant quantity.
Cheer, J/. -- John Beardmore