Gas powered generator

You can find cheap small(1kw) gasoline generators but they are so noisy. I would be interested in a low powered quiet(not fuel cell) efficient propane generator, If I could fine one? Something I could screw up a 1lb propane cylinder and have hours of electricity. They have a compact furnace in Europe that also generates electricity for home use, but very expensive.

"Wonderer" wrote in message

You can find cheap small(1kw) gasoline generators but they are so noisy. I would be interested in a low powered quiet(not fuel cell) efficient propane generator, If I could fine one? Something I could screw up a 1lb propane cylinder and have hours of electricity. They have a compact furnace in Europe that also generates electricity for home use, but very expensive.

The best I can think of in that class are the 1 KW inverter generators made my Honda and Yamaha. They are quiet and efficient, particularly when used on small loads. They come from the factory equipped to run on gasoline, but propane conversion kits may be available. They cost around $700.00. If low noise, high efficiency, pure sine wave, and reliability are important to you, they are worth the money. I have two of the Yamaha units on the shelf at work specifically for running communications closets following power failure.
Vaughn
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Wonderer wrote:

You can find cheap small(1kw) gasoline generators but they are so noisy. I would be interested in a low powered quiet(not fuel cell) efficient propane generator, If I could fine one? Something I could screw up a 1lb propane cylinder and have hours of electricity. They have a compact furnace in Europe that also generates electricity for home use, but very expensive.

You might look for thermophotovoltaic generators. I'm not sure if they make them in larger sizes but I have heard they are looking at them for hybrid electric cars.
Anthony

On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 03:10:37 GMT, Thomas Horne wrote:

I don't know what your calling properly converted but can you point to one manufacturer that uses the same break horsepower curve on a gasoline ^^^^^ Brake engine running on gaseous fuel as it does for that engine running on gasoline? Alternatively can you point out one capacity listing for a generator for sale with the same engine and alternator that gives the same output listing in volt / amperes for both a gasoline and gaseous fuel version?

Sure. Generac's QuietPack line of very quiet RV generators:
http://www.guardiangenerators.com/Products/Recreation/QUIETPACT/QUIETPACT5575.aspx Here's mine:
http://www.neon-john.com/Generator/Quiet_pack_55G/Quiet_home.htm
They way they do it is the same as the way they achieve such a low noise level - use a highly oversized engine and run it slow. In this case, the Briggs/Vanguard twin cylinder 27hp engine is run at only about 1500 RPM (from the top of my head) and is asked to produce only about 11 hp for my 5500 watt version. The higher power versions use the same engine and alternator and simply use different gearing so that the engine runs a little faster.
On gasoline the throttle never goes wide open unless the generator is overloaded. This leaves plenty of headroom for the loss of power propane causes.
I believe that Onan has a line of dual fuel, identical HP generators but I'm not sure.
More usual is Generac's inverter generator for RVs, the Impact that they seem to not be making anymore.
Mine: http://www.neon-john.com/Generator/Impact_3600/Impact_home.htm
From the manual, the gas version is rated at 3600 watts and the LP version at 3400. This is a variable speed engine setup just like the Honda EUs. It contains a one cylinder vertical shaft Briggs engine that actually spins up to 4200 RPM at max load. IOW, they're flogging the engine to get the rated power and they can't quite flog it as hard on LP.
This is typical of an engine closely sized to match the generator's output. I'd expect that out of an EU converted to propane and even less on NG. Honda flogs those little engines too at full output.
John --- John De Armond See my website for my current email address http://www.neon-john.com Cleveland, Occupied TN All great things are simple and many can be expressed in single words: Freedom, Justice, Honor, Duty, Mercy, Hope. -Churchill

Vaughn Simon wrote:

"Thomas Horne" wrote in message mg wrote: Be cautious in your generator selection if your going to run it on natural gas. The capacity of the generator drops off sharply from it's nominal rating when run on gaseous fuel.
That depends Tom. It is more correct to say that you can expect the peak engine power to drop by perhaps 10%. The capacity of the generator may or may not drop depending on the original design of the unit, specifically the size of the engine compared to the size of the generator.
For example, my Onan CCK is rated at 4 KW regardless of fuel supply. Why? Big engine.
Vaughn

Thanks Vaughn That at least makes sense. Having seen dozens of brake horsepower curves for gasoline engines that are also offered in a gaseous fueled version I had never seen one with the same curve for both fuels. -- Tom Horne

scott wrote:

Karl S wrote in news:kKidnR78_LdH943bnZ2dnUVZ_rSjnZ2d@sysmatrix.net:

This is slightly off-topic, but I have a portable gasoline-fueled generator sold by Coleman. Can anyone here tell me how long gasoline can be stored in the generator's fuel tank? I tried using Sta-Bil in the fuel last fall, but it did not over-winter well and the generator had to be serviced. Even now, it surges unless slightly "choked".
Karl S.
Hi, Karl Fuel storage is a real problem nowadays. In the part of Texas I live in you could generally count on 60 days if your can was sealed air tight, but the recent government intervention made alcohol ubiquitous in gasoline, so I cannot say with certainty now, and depending on where you live the gasoline may be different. For the best results in storing gasoline , go garage sale hunting, find an old gas can that is metal, not plastic, and if you are lucky to find a "terne" lined can , that has lead in the coating that will kill microbes growing in the fuel, and seal it airtight, vent cap closed, put it in a cool place the sun will not reach. I have successfully stored fuel 9 months this way. By the way my gas can is not for sale, and in a lot of states now, Texas, Oklahoma and California and possibly more I don't know about , you have new regulations on gas cans, you may not be able to buy what you want, just what is legal. I advise my customers ( i am a small engine technician) to only buy a 30 day supply of gas, when it is older than 30 days pour it in your car and go buy new fuel. This is a lot of trouble if you want to have generator fuel on hand, though. Your surging problem may be only fuel related, but if it does not go away when the engine is fully warmed up , or with fresh fuel, it will need some carburetor cleaning. Gum and varnish form first on parts containing copper, and most carb jets are made of brass, (alloy of copper and zinc) so they may have a coating that restricts the orifice and leans out the fuel/air mixture also causing surging. Good luck, and you may need to find a small engine tech you can trust. Scott
Thanks for the info.

I'll go with the 30-day limit, In the meantime, I'm running it with a little "carb cleaner" mixed into the fresh gas to see if that makes a difference.

You might consider a propane conversion. For about $200, it eliminates the storage issues, and the fuel system stays clean. Eliminates the need for a choke, enhances remote starting, and reduces concern over carbon monoxide issues. Propane is a cleaner burning domestic fuel, and is often much cheaper than gasoline. You can still use gasoline, or even natural gas.
http://www.propane-generators.com/a-c_kit_list.htm#Briggs%20kit%20prices
-- Steve Spence Director, Green-Trust http://www.green-trust.org "Karl S" wrote in message

scott wrote: Karl S wrote in news:kKidnR78_LdH943bnZ2dnUVZ_rSjnZ2d@sysmatrix.net: This is slightly off-topic, but I have a portable gasoline-fueled generator sold by Coleman. Can anyone here tell me how long gasoline can be stored in the generator's fuel tank? I tried using Sta-Bil in the fuel last fall, but it did not over-winter well and the generator had to be serviced. Even now, it surges unless slightly "choked".
Karl S.
Hi, Karl Fuel storage is a real problem nowadays. In the part of Texas I live in you could generally count on 60 days if your can was sealed air tight, but the recent government intervention made alcohol ubiquitous in gasoline, so I cannot say with certainty now, and depending on where you live the gasoline may be different. For the best results in storing gasoline , go garage sale hunting, find an old gas can that is metal, not plastic, and if you are lucky to find a "terne" lined can , that has lead in the coating that will kill microbes growing in the fuel, and seal it airtight, vent cap closed, put it in a cool place the sun will not reach. I have successfully stored fuel 9 months this way. By the way my gas can is not for sale, and in a lot of states now, Texas, Oklahoma and California and possibly more I don't know about , you have new regulations on gas cans, you may not be able to buy what you want, just what is legal. I advise my customers ( i am a small engine technician) to only buy a 30 day supply of gas, when it is older than 30 days pour it in your car and go buy new fuel. This is a lot of trouble if you want to have generator fuel on hand, though. Your surging problem may be only fuel related, but if it does not go away when the engine is fully warmed up , or with fresh fuel, it will need some carburetor cleaning. Gum and varnish form first on parts containing copper, and most carb jets are made of brass, (alloy of copper and zinc) so they may have a coating that restricts the orifice and leans out the fuel/air mixture also causing surging. Good luck, and you may need to find a small engine tech you can trust. Scott
Thanks for the info. I'll go with the 30-day limit, In the meantime, I'm running it with a little "carb cleaner" mixed into the fresh gas to see if that makes a difference.

On Mar 31, 9:43 pm, "Wonderer" wrote:

You can find cheap small(1kw) gasoline generators but they are so noisy. I would be interested in a low powered quiet(not fuel cell) efficient propane generator, If I could fine one? Something I could screw up a 1lb propane cylinder and have hours of electricity. They have a compact furnace in Europe that also generates electricity for home use, but very expensive.

There is a company in the UK doing this via a Fuel Cell Stack. They are called Voller Energy. www.voller-energy.com I think? Their system will produce electricity from a standard propane container.

"AnthonyRussellOsborn" wrote in message

There is a company in the UK doing this via a Fuel Cell Stack. They are called Voller Energy. www.voller-energy.com I think? Their system will produce electricity from a standard propane container.

Thanks for an interestng link, but that seems to be a future product. Their site says:
"We are currently developing a system which will run from LPG, propane or butane (bbq gas) and which will provide the functional equivalent of a 5kVA petrol or diesel generator. This product will be aimed at the leisure industry initially, for powering the 12V or 24V circuits on board yachts and in motorhomes & caravans, by using the cooking gas already on board. "
They do have a "100 Watt" fuel cell that seems to be a current product. It will provide a continuous 65 to 70 watts, but only runs on hydrogen gas. You can get it packaged as a rack mount battery charger, or as a portable unit that will supply 12 VDC or small amounts of AC line current.
Vaughn
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