Solar Powered Sign

I have a 75 Watt Panel, Solar Charge Controller going to a deep cycle battery (Marine). I've been using it to light a sign at nite using an 200 Watt Inverter that powers two "energy effecient" flourescent flood lights 30W Each on the bulbs.... I'm also using a "dusk to dawn" sensor, but don't know how much watts that is taking.
It is working pretty good except for overcast days, then I only get about 2 to 3 hours out of them.
I need to get more effecient lighting, and I thought about getting rid of the inverter all together and just using LEDs for the light source. So I ordered 100 Ultra-Bright LEDS (15,000 mcd)..
Tonite I hooked up 4 of them in series (Since each bulb called for 3 volts). Looks like it works okay, but have to be about a foot away from the sign to make it beam on there.
Just need some ideas on how to hook up all 100 of these. Any ideas on making these setup work or am going the wrong direction??

ClouD_SeVeN wrote:

I have a 75 Watt Panel, Solar Charge Controller going to a deep cycle battery (Marine). I've been using it to light a sign at nite using an 200 Watt Inverter that powers two "energy effecient" flourescent flood lights 30W Each on the bulbs.... I'm also using a "dusk to dawn" sensor, but don't know how much watts that is taking.
It is working pretty good except for overcast days, then I only get about 2 to 3 hours out of them.

Hmm, 75 Watt panel and 60 W lights. It sounds like you're only going to get as many hours of light as you have hours of sunlight.

I need to get more effecient lighting, and I thought about getting rid of the inverter all together and just using LEDs for the light source. So I ordered 100 Ultra-Bright LEDS (15,000 mcd)..

LED's are not more efficient than fluorescents. You can buy 12V fluorescent lights. This will eliminate the inverter. If you get slight dimmer lights, say 20W each, then you'll get more hours of run time at night but less light.
http://www.lampsontheweb.com/NoFrame/Products/Flood-Lights1.html
Anthony

"Anthony Matonak" wrote in message You can

buy 12V fluorescent lights. This will eliminate the inverter. If you get slight dimmer lights, say 20W each, then you'll get more hours of run time at night but less light.
http://www.lampsontheweb.com/NoFrame/Products/Flood-Lights1.html

Or for a lot less money you could use 12 volt CF lamp in your own reflectors. Google on BPESL13T/MAR-12 or click on http://www.nolico.com/saveenergy/12_volt_marine_cfl.htm . These things take about one amp each. Also, do you really need your sign on all night? I operate two of thoes bulbs on roughly the same amount of solar panels but only run them 4 hours a night. I'm sure I could run them longer, just never saw a need to have light past midnight.
Vaughn

Anthony

ClouD_SeVeN wrote:

I have a 75 Watt Panel, Solar Charge Controller going to a deep cycle battery (Marine). I've been using it to light a sign at nite using an 200 Watt Inverter that powers two "energy effecient" flourescent flood lights 30W Each on the bulbs.... I'm also using a "dusk to dawn" sensor, but don't know how much watts that is taking.
It is working pretty good except for overcast days, then I only get about 2 to 3 hours out of them.
I need to get more effecient lighting, and I thought about getting rid of the inverter all together and just using LEDs for the light source. So I ordered 100 Ultra-Bright LEDS (15,000 mcd)..
Tonite I hooked up 4 of them in series (Since each bulb called for 3 volts). Looks like it works okay, but have to be about a foot away from the sign to make it beam on there.
Just need some ideas on how to hook up all 100 of these. Any ideas on making these setup work or am going the wrong direction??
have you tryed dumping the inverter and hooking up some tube inverters

to the lights i.e. rip the choke/hf cirkit and replace with 12vdc tube inverters you can salvage these from 12v flourecnent light fittings or buy them as modules from electronic component suppliers . I have used this method very sucesfuylly in mcycle lamps .

On Wed, 02 Nov 2005 11:20:28 GMT, "Vaughn" wrote:

"Anthony Matonak" wrote in message You can buy 12V fluorescent lights. This will eliminate the inverter. If you get slight dimmer lights, say 20W each, then you'll get more hours of run time at night but less light.
http://www.lampsontheweb.com/NoFrame/Products/Flood-Lights1.html
Or for a lot less money you could use 12 volt CF lamp in your own reflectors. Google on BPESL13T/MAR-12 or click on http://www.nolico.com/saveenergy/12_volt_marine_cfl.htm . These things take about one amp each. Also, do you really need your sign on all night? I operate two of thoes bulbs on roughly the same amount of solar panels but only run them 4 hours a night. I'm sure I could run them longer, just never saw a need to have light past midnight.
Vaughn
Anthony
CF sounds like interesting technology, how does it work.

For the light control,I'm just using a Dusk To Dawn sensor, But I have not found one that will work with 12 volt.

ClouD_SeVeN wrote:

For the light control,I'm just using a Dusk To Dawn sensor, But I have not found one that will work with 12 volt.

http://www.onestopshopcatalog.com/sl-7001.html This is the 20 watt Heath Zenith Solar light that I have. I bought it from NorthernTool, who carries a much cheaper 8 watt now. <http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=6970&productId=200306871&R=200306871>
Both are motion sensing and dusk/dawn detecting. So the trick would be to defeat the motion sensor. But there are certainly low voltage dusk/dawn sensors available.
$499!!! http://www.solar4power.com/store/150light.htm
-- --- Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8,-122.5

"ClouD_SeVeN" wrote in message

CF sounds like interesting technology, how does it work.

CF stands for "Compact Flourescent". It is just the same flourescent screw-in bulb that you have probably seen before, but it has a solid-state 12-volt ballast. I have measured mine at just under one amp (about 12 watts, for a 40 watt-equivalent light) Be sure to connect the + to the tip of the bulb. I understand that they do not like reverse polarity.

For the light control,I'm just using a Dusk To Dawn sensor, But I have not found one that will work with 12 volt.

Buy yourself a Trace C12. http://shop.store.yahoo.com/affordablesolar/80.html It is a Charge Controller, Dusk to Dawn sensor, Timer, and Low Voltage Disconnect all in one box. It is a wonderful thing!
Vaughn

wrote in message

ClouD_SeVeN wrote: For the light control,I'm just using a Dusk To Dawn sensor, But I have not found one that will work with 12 volt.
http://www.onestopshopcatalog.com/sl-7001.html This is the 20 watt Heath Zenith Solar light that I have. I bought it from NorthernTool, who carries a much cheaper 8 watt now.

This is a good find, but I think that it is not best for this particular application because it has an incandescent lamp. Either flourescent or LED will probably be more efficient.
Vaughn

Vaughn wrote:

http://www.onestopshopcatalog.com/sl-7001.html
This is a good find, but I think that it is not best for this particular application because it has an incandescent lamp. Either flourescent or LED will probably be more efficient.

I don't know how long the light would shine. If it's bright enough, and lasts long enough, it could be good enough.
After several years, I found that it didn't seem to work very well. I replaced the battery with one that was a little larger but didn't fit inside the case. At the same time, I extended the wire to the solar panel so I could get the light closer to where I needed it.
My application is in a barn, where the motion detecting is just fine, the power is adequate, and the battery life is more than sufficient.
To stay lit through the night might require a different approach, but my response was also to indicate that there is no shortage of low voltage dusk/dawn sensors. Intermatic "Malibu" lights are all low voltage, and dark sensing, but I don't know if the sensor is at low voltage.

-- --- Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8,-122.5

wrote in message

Vaughn wrote: http://www.onestopshopcatalog.com/sl-7001.html
This is a good find, but I think that it is not best for this particular application because it has an incandescent lamp. Either flourescent or LED will probably be more efficient.
I don't know how long the light would shine. If it's bright enough, and lasts long enough, it could be good enough.

The prime issue here is efficiency, although the average compact fluorescent has a much greater lifespan than the average incandescent (though probably less than an LED).
Here is a chart of the relative efficiency of various types of lamps from: http://www.otherpower.com/otherpower_lighting.html
a.. 32 watt T8 fluorescent--85 to 95 lumens/watt b.. standard F40T12 cool white fluorescent--60-65 lumens/watt c.. compact fluorescents--low 30's to low 60's lumens per watt, usually 48-60 d.. T3 tubular halogen--20 lumens/watt e.. white LED--15-19 lumens/watt f.. standard 100 watt incandescent--17 lumens/watt g.. incandescent night light bulb (7w)--6 lumens/watt h.. incandescent flashlight bulbs--dismal, less than 6 lumens/watt That same page states that quartz-halogen (such as in that Heath fixture) is slightly more efficient (15%) than a standard incandescent bulb. In contrast, a compact fluorescent is about four times as efficient as a standard incandescent and vaguely twice as efficient as a white LED. In the application of the OP's sign, twice the efficiency means that only half as much PV panel is needed. That is a big deal!
Regards Vaughn

Vaughn wrote:

dold@XReXXSolar.usenet.us.com> wrote in message
I don't know how long the light would shine. If it's bright enough, and lasts long enough, it could be good enough.
The prime issue here is efficiency, although the average compact

Better efficiency would be nice in theory. If I missed the page for the cheaper competitive product that you are mentioning, I apologize.
You suggested that running the lighted sign after midnight wasn't needed. If that's true, then the a light that runs until midnight meets the requirements and any improvement in efficiency is irrelevant.
I saw the LED panel for $499, and the halogen for $69. Long term, if the sign were powered from a billable resource, there would be some consideration for the improved efficiency. Working from a solar source, using existing, commercially available products, not a theoretical project, I think the cheaper solution is the better solution.
I have compact flourescents in my house. I have LED flashlights. I have halogen in a couple of work lights, and the 11 year old Zenith.
--- Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8,-122.5

One more method is using a simple constant current circuit and use 3 LEDs in series. What is the size of your signboard? I am also experimenting with 6W flourescent tubes with 12V

I am working on developing commercial products with LEDs. I fail to understand why they charge so much for those LED panels. What you are mentioning for $499 should easily be possible to manufacture and sell at less than $150. Or maybe I am missing some point. But I am passionate about this new technology and am sure we can give it at much cheaper rates and make them really efficient with good electronics design.

Do you have a circuit for a high frequency inverter which will run on 12V DC and power a 6W or 9W tube light?

On 7 Nov 2005 02:21:29 -0800, "gurugoa" wrote:
The LEDs are not working out that good, the light beam is too focused, maybe I need to make some kind of reflective plate. Maybe with Mylar???
I did find a nice 12v 20W Halogen Outdoor Landscape light bulb at Walmart for $5.00 that is working pretty good, but seems to generate lots of heat...

One more method is using a simple constant current circuit and use 3 LEDs in series. What is the size of your signboard? I am also experimenting with 6W flourescent tubes with 12V