Solar Power the EASY way

Is the Sun finally rising on Solar Power?
In 1931, Thomas Edison had a conversation with Henry Ford and Harvey Firestone. He said, "I'd put my money on the sun and solar energy. What a source of power! I hope we don't have to wait until oil and coal run out before we tackle that."
We have waited 76 years, but an innovative company may have finally found a solution. The sun supplies enough energy to earth in one hour to supply all of our energy needs for an entire year. But currently solar power produces less than � of 1% of our residential energy needs. Why?
In the past, solar power has been too expensive and too complicated. To switch to solar, people had to invest their children's college fund or sell their second car. The average consumer pays $40,000 to convert their home to solar-plus you are responsible for the installation, maintaining the equipment, getting permits-who has the time (or the money)?
A company called Citizenre has a bold plan to remove all of the traditional barriers to solar power. They offer: No system purchase. No installation cost. No maintenance. No permit hassles. No performance worries. No rate increases. No way!?
When we first heard about this from one of our readers, we were so intrigued that we contacted the company. It seemed almost too good to be true. Like most innovations, their model is so simple it makes you wonder why no one thought of it before.
You simply pay Citizenre the same rate per kilowatt for power that you used to pay your utility company-but it gets even better. Citizenre will guarantee that your rate per kilowatt will not go up for 25 years. With ever increasing electricity rates, this gives consumers peace of mind and can add up to significant savings. They even have a solar calculator on their website that shows exactly how much you will save over 1, 5, and 25 years. I saved over $13,000 and by using clean energy, it was the equivalent of taking 24 cars off the road or planting 400 trees. Nice.
In the past, "going green" usually implied sacrifice. You get to feel good about saving the planet but most "green" products are more expensive than their "dirty" counterparts. With Citizenre, going green can actually save you money.
This is all made possible by net metering laws that require the utility companies to allow renewable energy to flow into the grid and then allow the consumer to pull that same amount of energy off of the grid at no cost to the consumer. Basically the grid becomes a huge battery. The meter spins backwards during the day when the sun is shining and forwards at night when the consumer pulls that power back off the grid.
These laws were passed because residential energy production was the number one cause of pollution in the US last year, but there are still 9 states that have not joined the party. If you live in Alaska, Tennessee, South Carolina, Mississippi, Alabama, Missouri, Kansas, Nebraska, or South Dakota, the Citizenre Solution is not an option for you yet.
We were still a little skeptical, so we asked Rob Styler, the president of their marketing division, some hard questions.
Q. How can Citizenre afford to install this complete solar system with no upfront cost to the consumer? A. Because we handle everything ourselves from the solar grade silicon to the final installation, we create savings at each stage of the production. Plus we are building the largest plant for solar power in the world. When you combine our vertical integration with our economies of scale, we are able to produce the final product at half the cost of our competitors.
Q. This sounds like Citizenre required a large amount of money to make all this happen? A. $650 million.
Q. Now I know why no one did this before you guys. So the customer does not have to give any money to have this complete solar system installed on their house? A. We require a security deposit, typically only $500, at the time of installation. They get this deposit back, with interest, at the end of the contract. If they don't pay their bill and walk away from the contract, they lose their deposit and we come take the system off their roof. They are also required to pay a monthly rental for the solar energy system.
Q. And how is that rent calculated? A. By the amount of energy that the system produces.
Q. But they are paying the same rate they were paying before, right? A. Often it is actually less. We base our rates on the yearly average for their utility. So we have to base our rates on the prior year. Since rates tend to go up each year, many customers will save money on their first bill, and this will only increase as the years pass. We provide a calculator on our website that will tell specifically what they will save with their particular utility and their monthly usage. Many customers save over $10,000 just by switching to the sun. Our whole mission is to help people join the solution and stop being part of the problem.
Q. I like that. How long of a contract do they have to sign? A. One year, five years, or 25 years. Over 70% of our customers sign the 25-year contract because that locks in their rate for the entire term of the contract. If they sign a shorter contract, their rate is recalculated according to current energy rates at the end of their term.
Q. What happens if I sign a 25-year contract and I want to sell my house in 10 years? A. You have three options. First, you can ask us to move the system to your new house. We do that one time for free. Second, you can transfer the contract to the new owner. This can potentially add value to your house because if energy rates keep going up like they are and they are 60% higher in 10 years, then your buyer would get a 60% decrease on their energy bill because of your foresight. The final option is that you can contact us, tell us that you just want to end the contract and we will remove the unit. With this third option you do lose your security deposit.
Q. So is my security deposit the most I can lose? A. Obviously if you don't pay your bill there will be late fees or if one of our franchisees comes out to your house to remove the unit and you greet him with a shot gun and pit bull, we will have to take legal steps to recover our property. But if the customer is cooperative they should have no worries.
Q. Say I want a system on my house. How does it work? What is the process? A. One of our Independent Ecopreneurs will help you each step of the way. There are some simple questions to answer about your amount of shade, the direction of your roofline, etc. After you sign the contract, a solar engineer will come to the house to design your system.
Q. What if I don't like the design? Am I still obligated to the contract? A. No. You can back out of the contract with no penalty. You don't even pay the deposit until after you approve the design.
Q. Okay. I like the design. I want the system. What's next? A. The installation usually takes about half a day. The permit process can take as much as 90 days depending on how cooperative the local utility is, but we handle everything. All you do is sit back and feel good knowing you are using clean energy to power your home.
Q. What happens if something breaks or goes wrong? A. We have a complete worry free performance guarantee. If the unit ever stops working, one of our franchisees will rush out to fix it for free. The customer has no rental charges until the system is working again so we are motivated to get it fixed fast.
Q. What if my kid hits a baseball through one of the panels? A. It is just like renting a car or a TV. You are responsible for returning it in good condition. We recommend that customers contact their homeowners insurance to double check that the unit will be covered under their policy. Usually there is not a problem.
Q. Wouldn't I save money in the long run if I just bought the system? A. Actually, no. Renting can save you a significant amount of money, and it protects you from a large investment risk. We can help the consumer evaluate their options so they can make a solid decision. Our goal is to have solar power producing 25% of our residential energy supply in the year 2025. To make that happen, we removed every barrier we could find to solar entry. We make solar simple.
Q. I understand that your manufacturing plant is not completed yet, is that right? A. Correct. The first systems will be ready to install in September of 2007.
Q. So why would someone sign up now? A. First because they lock in their rate as soon as they sign up. Second, they get in line so they can get their system sooner once the plant is producing. Third, it also helps us show the market how many people will go green if we provide an offer that makes sense on every level, including economically. To quote Ghandi, "Be the change that you want to see in the world."
Q. So how does someone sign up? A. You just go to www.jointhesolution.com/MadiSUN and you can sign up for free right now.

Sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. A recipe for bankruptcy.
Either the solar panel sales business is a total ripoff (The usual pyraimid scheme) or this is a complete scam.
"Tom Catino" wrote in message Is the Sun finally rising on Solar Power?
In 1931, Thomas Edison had a conversation with Henry Ford and Harvey Firestone. He said, "I'd put my money on the sun and solar energy. What a source of power! I hope we don't have to wait until oil and coal run out before we tackle that."

Tom Catino wrote:

Is the Sun finally rising on Solar Power?

Is every one of the "agents" for CitizenRE going to paste variations of the same SPAM in this newsgroup?
It would seem that none of these agents know how to review some of the posts of the last week or two in this group, and obviously haven't been reading it before making each of their own clever postings.
I wonder if they even notice that all of the "good" email addresses @gmail.com are already taken by the other agents before them.
-- --- Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5

dold@14.usenet.us.com wrote:

Tom Catino wrote: .... The same spam as every other CitenzenRE agent ...
Is every one of the "agents" for CitizenRE going to paste variations of the same SPAM in this newsgroup?

No, only the really dumb ones. :)
Anthony

Apparently I'm confused. They only have 650 million in funding. But they are going to build their own silicon plant, pay installers, shippping costs, sales guys, workers to maufacture the modules, operating expenses, and keep doing that until enough cash starts to roll in from actual customers at maybe $100 a month.
Doesn't the silicon plant alone cost like a billion+ to make?
Would you really like to have the first modules they make mounted on your roof?
-mike
"Tom Catino" wrote in message Is the Sun finally rising on Solar Power?
In 1931, Thomas Edison had a conversation with Henry Ford and Harvey Firestone. He said, "I'd put my money on the sun and solar energy. What a source of power! I hope we don't have to wait until oil and coal run out before we tackle that."
We have waited 76 years, but an innovative company may have finally found a solution. The sun supplies enough energy to earth in one hour to supply all of our energy needs for an entire year. But currently solar power produces less than � of 1% of our residential energy needs. Why?
In the past, solar power has been too expensive and too complicated. To switch to solar, people had to invest their children's college fund or sell their second car. The average consumer pays $40,000 to convert their home to solar-plus you are responsible for the installation, maintaining the equipment, getting permits-who has the time (or the money)?
A company called Citizenre has a bold plan to remove all of the traditional barriers to solar power. They offer: No system purchase. No installation cost. No maintenance. No permit hassles. No performance worries. No rate increases. No way!?
When we first heard about this from one of our readers, we were so intrigued that we contacted the company. It seemed almost too good to be true. Like most innovations, their model is so simple it makes you wonder why no one thought of it before.
You simply pay Citizenre the same rate per kilowatt for power that you used to pay your utility company-but it gets even better. Citizenre will guarantee that your rate per kilowatt will not go up for 25 years. With ever increasing electricity rates, this gives consumers peace of mind and can add up to significant savings. They even have a solar calculator on their website that shows exactly how much you will save over 1, 5, and 25 years. I saved over $13,000 and by using clean energy, it was the equivalent of taking 24 cars off the road or planting 400 trees. Nice.
In the past, "going green" usually implied sacrifice. You get to feel good about saving the planet but most "green" products are more expensive than their "dirty" counterparts. With Citizenre, going green can actually save you money.
This is all made possible by net metering laws that require the utility companies to allow renewable energy to flow into the grid and then allow the consumer to pull that same amount of energy off of the grid at no cost to the consumer. Basically the grid becomes a huge battery. The meter spins backwards during the day when the sun is shining and forwards at night when the consumer pulls that power back off the grid.
These laws were passed because residential energy production was the number one cause of pollution in the US last year, but there are still 9 states that have not joined the party. If you live in Alaska, Tennessee, South Carolina, Mississippi, Alabama, Missouri, Kansas, Nebraska, or South Dakota, the Citizenre Solution is not an option for you yet.
We were still a little skeptical, so we asked Rob Styler, the president of their marketing division, some hard questions.
Q. How can Citizenre afford to install this complete solar system with no upfront cost to the consumer? A. Because we handle everything ourselves from the solar grade silicon to the final installation, we create savings at each stage of the production. Plus we are building the largest plant for solar power in the world. When you combine our vertical integration with our economies of scale, we are able to produce the final product at half the cost of our competitors.
Q. This sounds like Citizenre required a large amount of money to make all this happen? A. $650 million.
Q. Now I know why no one did this before you guys. So the customer does not have to give any money to have this complete solar system installed on their house? A. We require a security deposit, typically only $500, at the time of installation. They get this deposit back, with interest, at the end of the contract. If they don't pay their bill and walk away from the contract, they lose their deposit and we come take the system off their roof. They are also required to pay a monthly rental for the solar energy system.
Q. And how is that rent calculated? A. By the amount of energy that the system produces.
Q. But they are paying the same rate they were paying before, right? A. Often it is actually less. We base our rates on the yearly average for their utility. So we have to base our rates on the prior year. Since rates tend to go up each year, many customers will save money on their first bill, and this will only increase as the years pass. We provide a calculator on our website that will tell specifically what they will save with their particular utility and their monthly usage. Many customers save over $10,000 just by switching to the sun. Our whole mission is to help people join the solution and stop being part of the problem.
Q. I like that. How long of a contract do they have to sign? A. One year, five years, or 25 years. Over 70% of our customers sign the 25-year contract because that locks in their rate for the entire term of the contract. If they sign a shorter contract, their rate is recalculated according to current energy rates at the end of their term.
Q. What happens if I sign a 25-year contract and I want to sell my house in 10 years? A. You have three options. First, you can ask us to move the system to your new house. We do that one time for free. Second, you can transfer the contract to the new owner. This can potentially add value to your house because if energy rates keep going up like they are and they are 60% higher in 10 years, then your buyer would get a 60% decrease on their energy bill because of your foresight. The final option is that you can contact us, tell us that you just want to end the contract and we will remove the unit. With this third option you do lose your security deposit.
Q. So is my security deposit the most I can lose? A. Obviously if you don't pay your bill there will be late fees or if one of our franchisees comes out to your house to remove the unit and you greet him with a shot gun and pit bull, we will have to take legal steps to recover our property. But if the customer is cooperative they should have no worries.
Q. Say I want a system on my house. How does it work? What is the process? A. One of our Independent Ecopreneurs will help you each step of the way. There are some simple questions to answer about your amount of shade, the direction of your roofline, etc. After you sign the contract, a solar engineer will come to the house to design your system.
Q. What if I don't like the design? Am I still obligated to the contract? A. No. You can back out of the contract with no penalty. You don't even pay the deposit until after you approve the design.
Q. Okay. I like the design. I want the system. What's next? A. The installation usually takes about half a day. The permit process can take as much as 90 days depending on how cooperative the local utility is, but we handle everything. All you do is sit back and feel good knowing you are using clean energy to power your home.
Q. What happens if something breaks or goes wrong? A. We have a complete worry free performance guarantee. If the unit ever stops working, one of our franchisees will rush out to fix it for free. The customer has no rental charges until the system is working again so we are motivated to get it fixed fast.
Q. What if my kid hits a baseball through one of the panels? A. It is just like renting a car or a TV. You are responsible for returning it in good condition. We recommend that customers contact their homeowners insurance to double check that the unit will be covered under their policy. Usually there is not a problem.
Q. Wouldn't I save money in the long run if I just bought the system? A. Actually, no. Renting can save you a significant amount of money, and it protects you from a large investment risk. We can help the consumer evaluate their options so they can make a solid decision. Our goal is to have solar power producing 25% of our residential energy supply in the year 2025. To make that happen, we removed every barrier we could find to solar entry. We make solar simple.
Q. I understand that your manufacturing plant is not completed yet, is that right? A. Correct. The first systems will be ready to install in September of 2007.
Q. So why would someone sign up now? A. First because they lock in their rate as soon as they sign up. Second, they get in line so they can get their system sooner once the plant is producing. Third, it also helps us show the market how many people will go green if we provide an offer that makes sense on every level, including economically. To quote Ghandi, "Be the change that you want to see in the world."
Q. So how does someone sign up? A. You just go to www.jointhesolution.com/MadiSUN and you can sign up for free right now.

On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 02:02:11 +0000 (UTC), dold@14.usenet.us.com wrote:

Tom Catino wrote: Is the Sun finally rising on Solar Power?
Is every one of the "agents" for CitizenRE going to paste variations of the same SPAM in this newsgroup?
It would seem that none of these agents know how to review some of the posts of the last week or two in this group, and obviously haven't been reading it before making each of their own clever postings.
I wonder if they even notice that all of the "good" email addresses @gmail.com are already taken by the other agents before them.

All the hype without any evidence of production is reminding me of the SunBall. They made a big splash beginning in 2005, including wildly exaggerated claims by the owner/inventor. Production was to begin in Jan.2006 IIRC. Latest projection is now Mar.2007, with US deliveries late 2007. The product, should it ever be produced, looks nothing like the original that was hyped, proving that the company was advertising delivery dates and pricing even though it didn't have a clue about whether or not the concept could be manufactured. Customers who "preordered" in 2005 are unlikely to take delivery before 2008, if ever. These outfits probably take the vaporware approach in order to attract financing. But it's really tiresome.
Wayne

Mike Payne wrote:

Apparently I'm confused. They only have 650 million in funding. But they are going to build their own silicon plant, pay installers, shippping costs, sales guys, workers to maufacture the modules, operating expenses, and keep doing that until enough cash starts to roll in from actual customers at maybe $100 a month.

Maybe I missed something, but I haven't seen anything suggesting that they're going to make their own panels, let alone their own silicon. It appears to me that they're simply installing systems assembled from off-the-shelf components and charging people to use them. That said, I can't imagine they'll recover their investment very quickly -- their business model would seem to require some very patient investors.
As a customer (or, for that matter, as an investor), the AC modules would worry me. To date, field experience with those things hasn't been very good.

Tom Catino wrote:

Is the Sun finally rising on Solar Power?
In 1931, Thomas Edison had a conversation with Henry Ford and Harvey Firestone. He said, "I'd put my money on the sun and solar energy. What a source of power! I hope we don't have to wait until oil and coal run out before we tackle that."

I'd love for somebody to point me to the source of that quote. It's a great quote and I'd love for it to be authentic, but considering that I never saw it until recently and I haven't been able to find a source, I'm beginning to think somebody made it up.

R.H. Allen wrote:

Maybe I missed something, but I haven't seen anything suggesting that they're going to make their own panels,

Have another look.
"Our initial manufacturing plant an integrated wafer/cell/panel line has a designed PV production capacity of 500 MW per year. The Company expects the plant to be commissioned in Q3 of 2007 at 20% capacity"
I don't think they are doing any installations of anyone else's systems. "The whole system is unique in its design"
-- --- Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5

In article , kkarie@hotmail.com says...

Mike Payne wrote: Apparently I'm confused. They only have 650 million in funding. But they are going to build their own silicon plant, pay installers, shippping costs, sales guys, workers to maufacture the modules, operating expenses, and keep doing that until enough cash starts to roll in from actual customers at maybe $100 a month.
Maybe I missed something, but I haven't seen anything suggesting that they're going to make their own panels, let alone their own silicon. It appears to me that they're simply installing systems assembled from off-the-shelf components and charging people to use them. That said, I can't imagine they'll recover their investment very quickly -- their business model would seem to require some very patient investors.

Maybe they hope to sell 20-year bonds?
-- Want Freebies? http://www.TheFreeStuffList.com/ Check The Free Stuff List

dold@14.usenet.us.com wrote:

R.H. Allen wrote: Maybe I missed something, but I haven't seen anything suggesting that they're going to make their own panels,
Have another look.
"Our initial manufacturing plant an integrated wafer/cell/panel line has a designed PV production capacity of 500 MW per year. The Company expects the plant to be commissioned in Q3 of 2007 at 20% capacity"

Huh. Guess I missed it. I see a reference to a manufacturing plant in the post that started this thread, but I didn't seen the bit you're quoting either there or on the company's web site.
At any rate, making their own wafers doesn't mean they'll be making their own silicon. Most large PV manufacturers buy raw silicon feedstock and make wafers themselves (though as I recall, Sunpower recently acquired a feedstock manufacturer). Even so, I think they'll need a fair bit more than $650 million to fully finance a 500 MW plant.

R.H. Allen wrote:

Huh. Guess I missed it. I see a reference to a manufacturing plant in the post that started this thread, but I didn't seen the bit you're quoting either there or on the company's web site.

citizenre.com "About us" "The roadmap".

bit more than $650 million to fully finance a 500 MW plant.

Oh, that part ;-)
-- --- Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5

Usenet2007@THE-DOMAIN-IN.SIG wrote:

In article , kkarie@hotmail.com says... business model would seem to require some very patient investors.
Maybe they hope to sell 20-year bonds?

Someone commented that they had a strange pool of investors from industries that seemed that they should be anti-solar. I didn't follow that thought to confirm it, but there are certain "green" certification programs.
If your company really can't get clean enough to meet some regulation, you might be able to invest in some other company that is cleaner than it needs to be. I think that's the way it goes ;-)
Do a little searching on the New Jersey SRECs. That might be a package where a utility company either needs to build a green generator, or buy SRECs on the open market equivalent to the dollar amount that they were supposed to invest in a green facility.
There is a certain amlount of jabber on the citizenre web site that makes me think they are going to leverage such requirements. Also, by "renting" their facilites, they seem poised to appear on paper as a single, very large, generating entity. That would allow them to get some commercial rebates and incentives that are limited for residential installations.
It could be a wonderful thing, or a scam... it's hard to tell. They certainly seem to be MLM and causing a lot of spam in this newsgroup.
Building their own plant would seem to be an unnecessarily large upfront expense.
-- --- Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5