Manufacture your own solar panels. . .from scratch

Can anyone tell me what it would take to make your own solar panels? When I say that I mean soldering the cells to create your own solar energy matrix. Are there any resources (web, good books)? Is this cheaper than buying from a retailer? Or am I out of my mind?
Thanks,
Gresford Thomas

Of course it's possible.
Problems are: - it may be cheaper or not, that depends how much your time is worth - you may need to either make the panels larger than commercial ones, or get special solar materials (optimal absorption in the visible range, minimal in infrared, special glass, ...), which are expensive - the connection of the absorber with the pipes is critical, but not easy to do
Advantage: - you can make forms as you wish, even fill a triangular shape below the roof rim, etc
I have a book of a firm that sells (or at least did sell in 199x) pipes connected with absorbers, that you can solder together in shapes as you like.
I would suggest - either get ready-made collectors, or at least - get the aborbers/pipes pre-manufactured
If you have a lot of space, you can find cheaper methods to build it all yourself, but it will take some time to find optimal parts.
Christian
"Gresford" wrote in message

Can anyone tell me what it would take to make your own solar panels? When I say that I mean soldering the cells to create your own solar energy matrix. Are there any resources (web, good books)? Is this cheaper than buying from a retailer? Or am I out of my mind?
Thanks,
Gresford Thomas

Gresford wrote:

Can anyone tell me what it would take to make your own solar panels? When I say that I mean soldering the cells to create your own solar energy matrix. Are there any resources (web, good books)? Is this cheaper than buying from a retailer? Or am I out of my mind?
Thanks,
Gresford Thomas

http://www.green-trust.org/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=23&products_id=30
http://www.green-trust.org/2005/08/make-your-own-pv-panels.html
-- Steve Spence Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html

Gresford wrote:

Can anyone tell me what it would take to make your own solar panels? When I say that I mean soldering the cells to create your own solar energy matrix. Are there any resources (web, good books)? Is this cheaper than buying from a retailer? Or am I out of my mind?

Sure it's possible, but I would recommend it only as an educational exercise because you're not going to do it cheaper. For starters, manufacturers buy the parts and materials needed in far larger quantities than you would and get much better prices as a result. In addition, some of the materials you would need -- assuming you're looking to make a panel that will produce as much energy and last as long in the field as one that you purchase from a dealer -- are difficult to find.
For example, household window glass won't cut it, but you're not going to find the high-transparency stuff used in PV panels at your local glass dealer. You will have similar trouble finding a suitable silicone with which to encapsulate the cells under the glass -- the stuff you'll find at the hardware store won't be as transparent and will likely have a higher acid content, which will be detrimental to your electrical connections. It will probably also turn brown when exposed to UV light.
Even if you do find the right materials, you will need to assemble them just as well as they would have at the factory if you want them to last as long in the field as factory-made panels. That is a *very* difficult task that will require a number of false starts (and, therefore, wasted money) before you get it right.
Finally, let's say you'd be happy with a lower-quality panel that won't last as long in the field as a factory-made one as long as you can save a few bucks. The solar cells alone will probably cost you at least 65% of what a finished panel would, so even if you get the other materials for free and value your own labor at zero, you would still need the panel to last 20 years just to break even -- and that's assuming you use the right materials to get maximum power output. If you use ordinary window glass, say, then you'd likely need the panel to last 25 or 30 years to get electricity at the same cost as a factory-made panel -- about the same life you would expect from a factory-made panel.

Allen, you wouldn't be a dealer would you? ;<)
In all seriousness, if your application can use a commercial panel that is the way to go.
At the same time if you need a custom panel or have access to the proper materials/skills, there is no reason not to build.
TMT

"Gresford" wrote in message

Can anyone tell me what it would take to make your own solar panels? When I say that I mean soldering the cells to create your own solar energy matrix. Are there any resources (web, good books)? Is this cheaper than buying from a retailer? Or am I out of my mind?
Thanks,
Gresford Thomas

In electonics pubs, scratch woudl mean even making your own cells.
>

Are we talking PV or DHW panels?
Christian
"R.H. Allen" wrote in message

Gresford wrote: Can anyone tell me what it would take to make your own solar panels? When I say that I mean soldering the cells to create your own solar energy matrix. Are there any resources (web, good books)? Is this cheaper than buying from a retailer? Or am I out of my mind?
Sure it's possible, but I would recommend it only as an educational exercise because you're not going to do it cheaper. For starters, manufacturers buy the parts and materials needed in far larger quantities than you would and get much better prices as a result. In addition, some of the materials you would need -- assuming you're looking to make a panel that will produce as much energy and last as long in the field as one that you purchase from a dealer -- are difficult to find.
For example, household window glass won't cut it, but you're not going to find the high-transparency stuff used in PV panels at your local glass dealer. You will have similar trouble finding a suitable silicone with which to encapsulate the cells under the glass -- the stuff you'll find at the hardware store won't be as transparent and will likely have a higher acid content, which will be detrimental to your electrical connections. It will probably also turn brown when exposed to UV light.
Even if you do find the right materials, you will need to assemble them just as well as they would have at the factory if you want them to last as long in the field as factory-made panels. That is a *very* difficult task that will require a number of false starts (and, therefore, wasted money) before you get it right.
Finally, let's say you'd be happy with a lower-quality panel that won't last as long in the field as a factory-made one as long as you can save a few bucks. The solar cells alone will probably cost you at least 65% of what a finished panel would, so even if you get the other materials for free and value your own labor at zero, you would still need the panel to last 20 years just to break even -- and that's assuming you use the right materials to get maximum power output. If you use ordinary window glass, say, then you'd likely need the panel to last 25 or 30 years to get electricity at the same cost as a factory-made panel -- about the same life you would expect from a factory-made panel.

GeekBoy wrote:

"Gresford" wrote in message
Can anyone tell me what it would take to make your own solar panels? When I say that I mean soldering the cells to create your own solar energy matrix. Are there any resources (web, good books)? Is this cheaper than buying from a retailer? Or am I out of my mind?
Thanks,
Gresford Thomas

In electonics pubs, scratch woudl mean even making your own cells.

not really. we don't assume folks would make their own transistors ....

-- Steve Spence Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html

Christian Kaiser wrote:

Are we talking PV or DHW panels?
Christian

PV panels. For some reason the OP included the thermal group.
-- Steve Spence Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html

"Steve Spence" wrote in message

GeekBoy wrote: "Gresford" wrote in message
Can anyone tell me what it would take to make your own solar panels? When I say that I mean soldering the cells to create your own solar energy matrix. Are there any resources (web, good books)? Is this cheaper than buying from a retailer? Or am I out of my mind?
Thanks,
Gresford Thomas

In electonics pubs, scratch woudl mean even making your own cells.

not really. we don't assume folks would make their own transistors ....

true true when you could just buy them for pennies.

-- Steve Spence Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html

I'm trying to figure out if rewiring a 12v panel to 2.7v to charge one of those 2600 Farad Maxwell Boostcaps would gain anything. The individual cells are about .44v and a couple amps. 5 or 6 in series would just match up to a 2.7v boostcap. Then a custom dc to dc converter that could sniff the boostcap from about .5 to 2.7v and pwm the output to 14.4v or something useful. Good holdup during quick flybys of clouds is the only advantage I can think of so far..... If anyone else thinks this is a good idea because _______ please report back

Well you've had lots of comments - so I will just tell you what I've actually done.
About 4 or 5 years ago, when panels were about NZ$11- 13 a watt here for the larger sizes (80w), I imported "blemished" and broken cells from US at about NZ$3.50 a watt (included postage, taxes etc). Most of these were for a friend who ran his remote house on microhydro and solar. He built about 10 X50 watts panels, costing about NZ$5 a watt when finished. These included aluminium frames, with standard glass front and plastic back, sealed with silicone. He subsequently subdivided his property, sold that house and built a new one, but as far as I know the solar panels are still working fine. It WAS a lot of work, but he said it was worthwhile and since he had little employment at the time - it was a great help.
The solar cell company provided good information with the cells to help with the process of soldering.
I still have about 300 watts of the cells here (to use on a holiday home) - but have also since imported solar laminates which are probably a better deal. One advantage of making your own is that you can make "custom-size" panels to some extent - eg square ones to fit inside a roof under transluscent sheet for security where you only want a trickle charge. Or lower voltage panels if you need them. I was lucky enough to be given over 100 sheets of thin window glass, about 16" x 20" - make good 4 volt or 6 volt panels.
Just my tuppence worth
Eric Sears
On 12 Oct 2005 04:19:55 -0700, "Gresford" wrote:

Can anyone tell me what it would take to make your own solar panels? When I say that I mean soldering the cells to create your own solar energy matrix. Are there any resources (web, good books)? Is this cheaper than buying from a retailer? Or am I out of my mind?
Thanks,
Gresford Thomas

R.H. Allen wrote:

Sure it's possible, but I would recommend it only as an educational exercise because you're not going to do it cheaper. For starters, manufacturers buy the parts and materials needed in far larger quantities than you would and get much better prices as a result. In addition, some of the materials you would need -- assuming you're looking to make a panel that will produce as much energy and last as long in the field as one that you purchase from a dealer -- are difficult to find.
For example, household window glass won't cut it, but you're not going to find the high-transparency stuff used in PV panels at your local glass dealer. You will have similar trouble finding a suitable silicone with which to encapsulate the cells under the glass -- the stuff you'll find at the hardware store won't be as transparent and will likely have a higher acid content, which will be detrimental to your electrical connections. It will probably also turn brown when exposed to UV light.
Even if you do find the right materials, you will need to assemble them just as well as they would have at the factory if you want them to last as long in the field as factory-made panels. That is a *very* difficult task that will require a number of false starts (and, therefore, wasted money) before you get it right.
Finally, let's say you'd be happy with a lower-quality panel that won't last as long in the field as a factory-made one as long as you can save a few bucks. The solar cells alone will probably cost you at least 65% of what a finished panel would, so even if you get the other materials for free and value your own labor at zero, you would still need the panel to last 20 years just to break even -- and that's assuming you use the right materials to get maximum power output. If you use ordinary window glass, say, then you'd likely need the panel to last 25 or 30 years to get electricity at the same cost as a factory-made panel -- about the same life you would expect from a factory-made panel.

Word...
I built over 600 watts of panels from surplus Evergreen cells last spring, this is back when the cells were less than $50/lb. I just saw an Ebay auction for the same cells close at over three times that price. I got my tempered glass for free and sealed them up in a glass shop as one would a double pane window (no silicone sandwich, just an airspace and a dessicant) By the time I was done, I had over $2/watt into them but they haven't been out in the weather yet and I'd be suprised to get 5 years without moisture between the panes.
As for my educational exercise, I wish I had bought a couple of BP sx170's back when they were about $4/watt, rather than spend the hours and hours it took to solder over 3000 connections by hand, tote these back and forth to the glass shop, and worry about durability.
I find your analysis to be spot on, and this is from a guy who has been there-done that.

BobG wrote:

I'm trying to figure out if rewiring a 12v panel to 2.7v to charge one of those 2600 Farad Maxwell Boostcaps would gain anything. The individual cells are about .44v and a couple amps. 5 or 6 in series would just match up to a 2.7v boostcap. Then a custom dc to dc converter that could sniff the boostcap from about .5 to 2.7v and pwm the output to 14.4v or something useful. Good holdup during quick flybys of clouds is the only advantage I can think of so far..... If anyone else thinks this is a good idea because _______ please report back

You might find it easier to just put 5 or 6 of those bootcaps in series to match the voltages. Then again, it would be much cheaper to simply use a 12V battery. If you are concerned about getting the most energy into your batteries then a MPP (Maximum Power Point) charge controller sounds like a better idea.
Anthony

Have any of you tried the screen-printing method of creating cells? The PDFS I have seem pretty simple and cheap if I knew how to screen-print :) I'm talking pennies per watt not $. It seems about the same as those new flexible panels.