Manufacture your own solar panels. . .from scratch

Too_Many_Tools wrote:

Allen, you wouldn't be a dealer would you? ;<)

No, but I've assembled PV panels from scratch before. The panels I assembled were done in the style of satellite panels, so there are some differences compared to commercial panels, but the steps are very similar. Without a *very* strong need for a custom panel there's no way I would ever consider doing it again, and I would expect it to cost at least as much as a commercial panel (particularly if my time were taken into account) and last nowhere near as long.

ewitte@hotmail.com wrote:

Have any of you tried the screen-printing method of creating cells? The PDFS I have seem pretty simple and cheap if I knew how to screen-print :) I'm talking pennies per watt not $. It seems about the same as those new flexible panels.

I haven't heard of this method. Can you give the URL to any of these PDFs? To the best of my knowledge, creating PV cells of any efficiency and longevity requires the use of fairly exotic equipment.
Anthony

Anthony Matonak wrote:

ewitte@hotmail.com wrote:
Have any of you tried the screen-printing method of creating cells? The PDFS I have seem pretty simple and cheap if I knew how to screen-print :) I'm talking pennies per watt not $. It seems about the same as those new flexible panels.
I haven't heard of this method. Can you give the URL to any of these PDFs? To the best of my knowledge, creating PV cells of any efficiency and longevity requires the use of fairly exotic equipment.
Anthony

I wonder what material they think they will screen print with? Maybe somebody is confused with circuit board etching ....
-- Steve Spence Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html

Steve Spence wrote:

Anthony Matonak wrote: ewitte@hotmail.com wrote:
Have any of you tried the screen-printing method of creating cells? The PDFS I have seem pretty simple and cheap if I knew how to screen-print :) I'm talking pennies per watt not $. It seems about the same as those new flexible panels.
I haven't heard of this method. Can you give the URL to any of these PDFs? To the best of my knowledge, creating PV cells of any efficiency and longevity requires the use of fairly exotic equipment.
Anthony
I wonder what material they think they will screen print with? Maybe somebody is confused with circuit board etching ....

They are different metals. I was going to offer to email the PDF to everyone but I'll do one even better. I'll have it available to dl off my 1&l account by the end of the weekend and post back.
Eric

ewitte@hotmail.com wrote:

Steve Spence wrote:
Anthony Matonak wrote:
ewitte@hotmail.com wrote:
Have any of you tried the screen-printing method of creating cells? The PDFS I have seem pretty simple and cheap if I knew how to screen-print :) I'm talking pennies per watt not $. It seems about the same as those new flexible panels.
I haven't heard of this method. Can you give the URL to any of these PDFs? To the best of my knowledge, creating PV cells of any efficiency and longevity requires the use of fairly exotic equipment.
Anthony
I wonder what material they think they will screen print with? Maybe somebody is confused with circuit board etching ....
They are different metals. I was going to offer to email the PDF to everyone but I'll do one even better. I'll have it available to dl off my 1&l account by the end of the weekend and post back.
Eric

Still not sure what the point is. You don't make pv from etchings or silkscreening, you make them from growing silicon crystals and doping the junctions with boron and phosphorous.
-- Steve Spence Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html

They are different metals. I was going to offer to email the PDF to everyone but I'll do one even better. I'll have it available to dl off my 1&l account by the end of the weekend and post back.
Eric
Still not sure what the point is. You don't make pv from etchings or silkscreening, you make them from growing silicon crystals and doping the junctions with boron and phosphorous.

Is PV different than solar? There are definately different ways to do solar. I know for one you can do it with copper and buring one side. Although any power you get from that specific proceedure will be a lot lower than commercially available panels.
Eric

"R.H. Allen" wrote in message

Too_Many_Tools wrote: Allen, you wouldn't be a dealer would you? ;<)
No, but I've assembled PV panels from scratch before. The panels I assembled were done in the style of satellite panels, so there are some differences compared to commercial panels, but the steps are very similar. Without a *very* strong need for a custom panel there's no way I would ever consider doing it again, and I would expect it to cost at least as much as a commercial panel (particularly if my time were taken into account) and last nowhere near as long.

Last long? What goes bad?

For everyone that wants to take a look at what I'm describing. This PDF describes several different ways of making PV cells. I'm referring to the screen print method.
http://s120570057.onlinehome.us/images/Homemade%20Solar%20Cells.pdf

Nog wrote:

"R.H. Allen" wrote in message
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
Allen, you wouldn't be a dealer would you? ;<)
No, but I've assembled PV panels from scratch before. The panels I assembled were done in the style of satellite panels, so there are some differences compared to commercial panels, but the steps are very similar. Without a *very* strong need for a custom panel there's no way I would ever consider doing it again, and I would expect it to cost at least as much as a commercial panel (particularly if my time were taken into account) and last nowhere near as long.
Last long? What goes bad?

A lot of things can go bad when something is exposed to the elements year after year. The PV industry has spent the last 30 years learning what those things are and figuring out how to protect against them -- PV modules have not always been warrantied for 20+ years. Keeping water out of the modules is really quite difficult, and a home-built panel is very likely to have problems with water causing corrosion of the electrical connections. Delamination of the silicone pottant from the glass is also an issue -- aside from allowing water to enter the module, it creates a light-reflective air pocket between the glass and the cells, cutting energy production. If the frame is not well assembled or the glass is not properly supported, the panel will be much more susceptible to physical damage from hail, flying debris, and animals. And if the builder uses substandard materials it can also affect the useful life of the module. Silicone from the hardware store, for example, is likely to contain more corrosion-inducing acetic acid and will almost certainly turn brown after several years exposure to UV light.

ewitte@hotmail.com wrote:

For everyone that wants to take a look at what I'm describing. This PDF describes several different ways of making PV cells. I'm referring to the screen print method.
http://s120570057.onlinehome.us/images/Homemade%20Solar%20Cells.pdf

That pdf only describes how to make a copper-oxide PV cell and mentions that screen printing is used to a) make contacts on crystalline cells and b) make experimental lab PV cells. It doesn't mention how incredibly inefficient copper-oxide cells are or how expensive and tricky screen printing semiconductors can be. And no, I really doubt you can bake your semiconductors in an ordinary BBQ.
Don't take my word on it though... http://freeenergynews.com/Directory/Organizations/FuellessPower/ http://www.otherpower.com/cgi-bin/webbbs/webbbs_config.pl?read=16814 http://www.theverylastpageoftheinternet.com/menu/scams/fuelessthoughts.htm http://freeenergynews.com/Directory/Beware/index.html
Anthony

ewitte@hotmail.com wrote:

For everyone that wants to take a look at what I'm describing. This PDF describes several different ways of making PV cells. I'm referring to the screen print method.
http://s120570057.onlinehome.us/images/Homemade%20Solar%20Cells.pdf

The "screen print method" outlined in your PDF is a means of making cadmium telluride solar cells. In theory, they can have very good efficiencies and have looked quite good in the laboratory. In production, however, it has proven difficult to deposit the layers with uniform quality. As a result, production yields and efficiencies have been low. Just something to consider for folks who might like to try this -- it will probably be quite sensitive to the cleanliness of your workspace and your chemicals, and the thickness and uniformity of the layers you print.
Oh, and be *exceedingly* careful if you're going to mess with cadmium and tellurium. Keep them out of your kitchen, and don't be stupid enough to heat them in an oven or grill that you plan to prepare food in later.

"Nog" wrote in message

"R.H. Allen" wrote in message Too_Many_Tools wrote: Allen, you wouldn't be a dealer would you? ;<)
No, but I've assembled PV panels from scratch before. The panels I assembled were done in the style of satellite panels, so there are some differences compared to commercial panels, but the steps are very similar. Without a *very* strong need for a custom panel there's no way I would ever consider doing it again, and I would expect it to cost at least as much as a commercial panel (particularly if my time were taken into account) and last nowhere near as long.
Last long? What goes bad?
Back in the 1970's I did make a 1 watt PV panel, mainly because manufactured

ones were cost prohibitive. I used surplus cells, and mounted them between sheets of acrylic plastic. I sealed them with epoxy. From my experience, several things did go bad. After a few months the epoxy failed causing delamination and entrance of moisture. Moisture corroded some connections. To get at them, I had to split apart the assembly (not fun to do). Some of the cells also failed after a while. Because of that, I limited solar PV experimentation to dry, sunny days until manufactured panels became available at a decent price.

Thanks. I got it off of P2P so no problem. I refuse to pay $ for information. Especially when its either false or over my understanding. So its a good method just not something the home user can easily do... ie best for someone that can buy the metals in bulk and have expensive machines to do the process. Yes I've seen the efficiences of those copper-oxide cells.
Eric

Gresford wrote:

Can anyone tell me what it would take to make your own solar panels? When I say that I mean soldering the cells to create your own solar energy matrix. Are there any resources (web, good books)? Is this cheaper than buying from a retailer? Or am I out of my mind?
Thanks,
Gresford Thomas

If your interested in a small experiment you can get about 2W out of a $0.39 transistor. Keep in mind though you HAVE to heavily concentrate light onto it and heatsink. Because without that its closer to .0003 watts. With a cheap mag lens .03 watts. You need a good fresnal lens to do any good. We have been testing with 2N3055 transistors.
Eric

ewitte@hotmail.com wrote:

Gresford wrote:
Can anyone tell me what it would take to make your own solar panels? When I say that I mean soldering the cells to create your own solar energy matrix. Are there any resources (web, good books)? Is this cheaper than buying from a retailer? Or am I out of my mind?
Thanks,
Gresford Thomas
If your interested in a small experiment you can get about 2W out of a $0.39 transistor. Keep in mind though you HAVE to heavily concentrate light onto it and heatsink. Because without that its closer to .0003 watts. With a cheap mag lens .03 watts. You need a good fresnal lens to do any good. We have been testing with 2N3055 transistors.

How in the world do you do that? 2N3055 are not light sensitive in as much as they are enclosed in either metal or plastic!
Cheers, Jeff

Eric