Small inverter for emergencies

I have seen these small inverters, mostly Coleman brand in 200W, 400W and 800W sizes. I always thought it would be nice to have one on hand in case of a power outage. Well, a few days ago we had a power outage that lasted about 20 hours. And all the time I kept thinking "Gee it would be nice to have one of those small inverters right about now". BUt, I had not researched the idea so I did not want to spend money on somthing that would not be completely usefull.
What I have in mind is to clip the thing to the battery of my car. Run the car on a fast idle to keep the battery charged. Run an extension cord into the house and plug a few things in to get lights, TV, computer, maybe even run the fridge a bit. Not necessarily all at the same time.
So my question is how much power can a Nissan Altima be expected to supply. And how big (and what brands) of inverters can drive a rather generic refrigerator for (say) 30 minutes at a time. I've heard that motors have a difficult time running on inverters.
BTW: I am not about to go rewireing the house or installing a permenent backup system since this is a rental. Maybe later when it is my own house.

On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 02:53:17 GMT, Gordon wrote:

I have seen these small inverters, mostly Coleman brand in 200W, 400W and 800W sizes. I always thought it would be nice to have one on hand in case of a power outage. Well, a few days ago we had a power outage that lasted about 20 hours. And all the time I kept thinking "Gee it would be nice to have one of those small inverters right about now". BUt, I had not researched the idea so I did not want to spend money on somthing that would not be completely usefull.
What I have in mind is to clip the thing to the battery of my car. Run the car on a fast idle to keep the battery charged. Run an extension cord into the house and plug a few things in to get lights, TV, computer, maybe even run the fridge a bit. Not necessarily all at the same time.
So my question is how much power can a Nissan Altima be expected to supply. And how big (and what brands) of inverters can drive a rather generic refrigerator for (say) 30 minutes at a time. I've heard that motors have a difficult time running on inverters.
BTW: I am not about to go rewireing the house or installing a permenent backup system since this is a rental. Maybe later when it is my own house.

GOOD inverters generally have a "surge" rating of up to double the steady rating. Many are closer to 160%. Many refrigerators will draw over double their running current to start (short spike, but enough to shut down many inverters) Anything less than an 800 watt unit is really dreaming.
At idle your car can likely put out something like 35-40% of rated output, which should handle an 800 watt unit.
-- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 02:53:17 GMT, Gordon wrote:

What I have in mind is to clip the thing to the battery of my car. Run the car on a fast idle to keep the battery charged. Run an extension cord into the house and plug a few things in to get lights, TV, computer, maybe even run the fridge a bit. Not necessarily all at the same time.
So my question is how much power can a Nissan Altima be expected to supply. And how big (and what brands) of inverters can drive a rather generic refrigerator for (say) 30 minutes at a time. I've heard that motors have a difficult time running on inverters.

You would want at least a 1200 watt inverter to power a generic fridge. (BTDT) If you have the alternator supplying roughly 500 watts into the battery on a fairly continuous basis, then yeah, it could work, even though it is terribly inefficient.
Be aware that you'll need something to push on the accelerator or grab the cable to get that fast idle, and that your mechanic probably won't like the idea, because cars and alternators aren't designed for that type of duty.
A fridge can easily go a couple of days without power - especially if you drape it with some blankets. For emergency lighting? Walgreens has battery powered LED booklights for sale right now, 2 for $3. They provide plenty of long lasting light and can be clipped or mounted wherever you need it.
Laptops need minimal power, so unless you absolutely must have a big computer, that can be a great option.
On the refrigerator, one trick can be to freeze blocks of ice in cut-off milk jugs to increase the thermal mass, then after a day or two without power add salt, to melt them and absorb more heat.
TV? One of the plusses of being without power is the absence of tv, but little battery tvs are available for about $10.

Thanks for the quick reply
clare at snyder.on.ca wrote in news:li1co2hb3ej0s2tddu3v83lgql2tk3a1au@ 4ax.com:

On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 02:53:17 GMT, Gordon <gonzo@alltomyself.com wrote:
I have seen these small inverters, mostly Coleman brand in 200W, 400W and 800W sizes. I always thought it would be nice to have one on hand in case of a power outage.
GOOD inverters generally have a "surge" rating of up to double the steady rating. Many are closer to 160%. Many refrigerators will draw over double their running current to start (short spike, but enough to shut down many inverters) Anything less than an 800 watt unit is really dreaming.

That's what I thought. TV, A couple of CFL lamps. that only adds up to a few 100 watts. With the TV taking most of it. BTW: I would be more intrested in the TV for news updates. I don't normaly watch the thing anyway. It's running the fridge that I was worried about. I was thinking about unplugging everything else and running the fridge for about 30 minutes every few hours.
So it sounds like a well made 800 watt unit or a not so well made 1200 Watt unit (acording to another post) should work OK. Any advise on brands names to look for??

At idle your car can likely put out something like 35-40% of rated output, which should handle an 800 watt unit.

somebody@somewhere.com wrote in news:1i1co29u04lfi08fhtejrapfukntbsakon@ 4ax.com:

On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 02:53:17 GMT, Gordon <gonzo@alltomyself.com wrote:
What I have in mind is to clip the thing to the battery of my car. Run the car on a fast idle to keep the battery charged. Run an extension cord into the house and plug a few things in to get lights, TV, computer, maybe even run the fridge a bit. Not necessarily all at the same time.
So my question is how much power can a Nissan Altima be expected to supply. And how big (and what brands) of inverters can drive a rather generic refrigerator for (say) 30 minutes at a time. I've heard that motors have a difficult time running on inverters.

You would want at least a 1200 watt inverter to power a generic fridge. (BTDT) If you have the alternator supplying roughly 500 watts into the battery on a fairly continuous basis, then yeah, it could work, even though it is terribly inefficient.

Let's see; 1200 Watts is 10 Amps at 120 volts. So a good 1200 watt inverter should supply about a 20 amp peak. That's in line with what most fridges seem to need.
A 35amp alternator at 14volts is about 500watts. I think I'm getting the math. Wouldn't want to run the fridge all the time. But for 30 minutes evey 4 or so hours should be OK.

Be aware that you'll need something to push on the accelerator or grab the cable to get that fast idle, and that your mechanic probably won't like the idea, because cars and alternators aren't designed for that type of duty.

Pair of Vise Grips always works. Turn the throttle to about 2000 RPM, Clamp on the Vise Grips, Done.

A fridge can easily go a couple of days without power - especially if you drape it with some blankets.

We went 20 hours without power and lost no food. The hard part was keeping the kids out of it.

For emergency lighting?

We have a couple of camping lanterns and many flashlights. But having one bright light in the house would have been nice.

Laptops need minimal power, so unless you absolutely must have a big computer, that can be a great option.

I have a Dell laptop that would have worked, Powering up the DSL modem is what stymied me. I'll have to work on a battery backup for that.

TV? One of the plusses of being without power is the absence of tv, but little battery tvs are available for about $10.

pep boys sell some pretty nice inverters cheap. I have one a 800 watt one that works fine

"Richard P." wrote in news:UZnhh.496801$5R2.297502@pd7urf3no:

What I have:
Xantrex 300 watt inverter w/ battery clamps and cig lighter adapter and has a cooling fan and low voltage alarm (shuts off at 10.5 volts which by then the battery is uncomfortably too far discharged, but oh well. Cost me $25.00 during a sale.
100 Ahr sealed AGM 12volt battery = free from work (saw duty as back up power for CATV network).

I have heard the Xantrex is a good brand. And 300watts would be fine, except for if I want to run the fridge. Then I imagine I would drain the battery pretty quick. Which makes me wonder if the deep cycle battery could be recharged using the car. Hook it up with a pair of jumper cables and run the car for an hour or so. Or would that be abusing the battery?

On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 04:02:59 GMT, Gordon wrote:

A 35amp alternator at 14volts is about 500watts. I think I'm getting the math. Wouldn't want to run the fridge all the time. But for 30 minutes evey 4 or so hours should be OK.

Figure voltage at 12 volts. Otherwise, you've got it about right. The important issue is that you aren't depending on the battery for much more than momentary use, and you aren't constantly overloading the alternator.
Comparatively speaking, a small car battery might be storing the energy that is in about a cup of gasoline, and is easily damaged. It becomes pretty obvious why you don't want to expect the battery alone to do much.
If you are planning on running the car near the house or in a garage, consider investing in a carbon monoxide detector.

Chances are the inverter wouldn't function with the fridge plugged in.
As for charging a deep cycle battery with a car, I know people who have done it, but I don't think it's good for the battery. I'm not sure why but someone here may be able to shed some light on that. I do know you want a charge controller so that it won't overcharge the battery. But then, when its an emergency, who cares about that anyways! hehheh...
"Gordon" wrote

I have heard the Xantrex is a good brand. And 300watts would be fine, except for if I want to run the fridge. Then I imagine I would drain the battery pretty quick. Which makes me wonder if the deep cycle battery could be recharged using the car. Hook it up with a pair of jumper cables and run the car for an hour or so. Or would that be abusing the battery?

Richard P. wrote:

Chances are the inverter wouldn't function with the fridge plugged in.
As for charging a deep cycle battery with a car, I know people who have done it, but I don't think it's good for the battery. I'm not sure why but someone here may be able to shed some light on that. I do know you want a charge controller so that it won't overcharge the battery. But then, when its an emergency, who cares about that anyways! hehheh...
"Gordon" wrote I have heard the Xantrex is a good brand. And 300watts would be fine, except for if I want to run the fridge. Then I imagine I would drain the battery pretty quick. Which makes me wonder if the deep cycle battery could be recharged using the car. Hook it up with a pair of jumper cables and run the car for an hour or so. Or would that be abusing the battery?

run fridge ONLY with car running. pep boys sells those zantrex units I have one. If the battery voltage is too low it auto shuts down.
A fridge will keep stuff cold for many hours like a day.
so run the car and fridge just oiccasionally whioch shouldnt drain the battery.
since larger inverters have bigger standby losses, just by running even without a load have a small inverter for minor loads like a couple lights. although you can buy compact 12 volts fluroscents if lights is all you want..
flexiblity is the key to emergencies. and keep your cars gas tank full, gas stations usually need power to pump gas. no electric no gasoline

On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 04:13:11 GMT, Gordon wrote:

Which makes me wonder if the deep cycle battery could be recharged using the car. Hook it up with a pair of jumper cables and run the car for an hour or so. Or would that be abusing the battery?

You're getting into a whole different area. The short answer is you'll only be putting on a partial or surface charge, and yes, that is battery abuse. If you don't drop the battery less than 50% of rating, and fully charge it after the event, you might get away with it.
Unless you go for the big boy toys, expect a marine trolling battery (which is a combo compromise between a auto battery and a deep cycle) to last a maximum of four years even with good care. A deep cycle battery will cost even more and provide less "instantanious" power. However, it has the potential to last much longer _IF_ it is properly maintained without any lapses.

somebody@somewhere.com wrote:

On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 04:13:11 GMT, Gordon <gonzo@alltomyself.com wrote:
Which makes me wonder if the deep cycle battery could be recharged using the car. Hook it up with a pair of jumper cables and run the car for an hour or so. Or would that be abusing the battery?
You're getting into a whole different area. The short answer is you'll only be putting on a partial or surface charge, and yes, that is battery abuse. If you don't drop the battery less than 50% of rating, and fully charge it after the event, you might get away with it.
Unless you go for the big boy toys, expect a marine trolling battery (which is a combo compromise between a auto battery and a deep cycle) to last a maximum of four years even with good care. A deep cycle battery will cost even more and provide less "instantanious" power. However, it has the potential to last much longer _IF_ it is properly maintained without any lapses.

its far cheaper and easier to JUST run the fridge on the car with the vehicle running. a regular deep cycle battery on a trickle charger with a small inverter for lights / radio only during emergencies.
or always run the inverters on the vehicle, small inverter for light loads, big inverter for fridge

If you are up north in the winter, just get a furniture dolly and roll the fridge outside and open the door.

In article , Gordon wrote:

I have seen these small inverters, mostly Coleman brand in 200W, 400W and 800W sizes. I always thought it would be nice to have one on hand in case of a power outage. Well, a few days ago we had a power outage that lasted about 20 hours. And all the time I kept thinking "Gee it would be nice to have one of those small inverters right about now". BUt, I had not researched the idea so I did not want to spend money on somthing that would not be completely usefull.
What I have in mind is to clip the thing to the battery of my car. Run the car on a fast idle to keep the battery charged. Run an extension cord into the house and plug a few things in to get lights, TV, computer, maybe even run the fridge a bit. Not necessarily all at the same time.
So my question is how much power can a Nissan Altima be expected to supply. And how big (and what brands) of inverters can drive a rather generic refrigerator for (say) 30 minutes at a time. I've heard that motors have a difficult time running on inverters.
BTW: I am not about to go rewireing the house or installing a permenent backup system since this is a rental. Maybe later when it is my own house.

One thing that most folks really don't get is, "Running a Automobile Engine to charge the battery, and power ANYTHING, is about as "Inefficent" as one could contimplate. You got this 6 or 8 Cyl mechanical monster turning a 30 or 40 amp Alternator to make 500 Watts of power. I mean, come on, lets get real, here. A little Honda 1000i cost less than $1K and is about as efficent as ANY Gasoline operated Generator, produces very nice SineWave, Stable, Power, and will run your fridge, Tv Lights, microwave, on a roatating basis, with ease, and do it all day on a couple of USGallons of Fuel. Your Car is going to burn that in a couple of hours.

You are ridiculous. Who cares about the efficiency? He is talking about emergency power here.
Where will the generator be for $1K when he needs it?
Will it even run every 5 years?
Where will the gas can be?
Is the gas too old?
When was the last time the spark plug was changed?
Maybe the thing has rusted inside the cylinders for lack of use?
You gonn'a come over and start it once a month for him, change the oil, test it?
"You" wrote in message

In article , Gordon wrote:
I have seen these small inverters, mostly Coleman brand in 200W, 400W and 800W sizes. I always thought it would be nice to have one on hand in case of a power outage. Well, a few days ago we had a power outage that lasted about 20 hours. And all the time I kept thinking "Gee it would be nice to have one of those small inverters right about now". BUt, I had not researched the idea so I did not want to spend money on somthing that would not be completely usefull.
What I have in mind is to clip the thing to the battery of my car. Run the car on a fast idle to keep the battery charged. Run an extension cord into the house and plug a few things in to get lights, TV, computer, maybe even run the fridge a bit. Not necessarily all at the same time.
So my question is how much power can a Nissan Altima be expected to supply. And how big (and what brands) of inverters can drive a rather generic refrigerator for (say) 30 minutes at a time. I've heard that motors have a difficult time running on inverters.
BTW: I am not about to go rewireing the house or installing a permenent backup system since this is a rental. Maybe later when it is my own house.
One thing that most folks really don't get is, "Running a Automobile Engine to charge the battery, and power ANYTHING, is about as "Inefficent" as one could contimplate. You got this 6 or 8 Cyl mechanical monster turning a 30 or 40 amp Alternator to make 500 Watts of power. I mean, come on, lets get real, here. A little Honda 1000i cost less than $1K and is about as efficent as ANY Gasoline operated Generator, produces very nice SineWave, Stable, Power, and will run your fridge, Tv Lights, microwave, on a roatating basis, with ease, and do it all day on a couple of USGallons of Fuel. Your Car is going to burn that in a couple of hours.