Small inverter for emergencies

Vehicle is kinda self maintained and has built in fuel tank if its used daily it will likely start for emergency. maintence for emergency operations costs no more than normal operations besides having a full tank of gas, plus fuel storage isnt a issue

Okay a show of hands of those have ran their vehicle every day and did not plug the vehicle in over night one time when the temperature went way down and then found out the car would not start in the morning...
Snow-thrower has always started which has same size of engine as most generators... Have a piece of hose where I can get fuel... Have numerous flashlights, including one of those shake and get light ones...
Now, I do not own a generator but I do have an inverter that I can connect to my boiler (it has a pump to move the hot water to the radiators) for heating. Have a spare 12 volt battery that I can use and be charged by the vehicle if I need to or wait until power comes back on and charge with a normal battery charger. I have tested this system out but have never had to use it in an emergency:-)
As for charging the battery with the vehicle, I have to run the vehicle for 10-15 minutes anyhow in order to warm it up before driving in the cold anyhow, so I can jumper the spare battery at that time in order to charge it. I have used the spare battery to jump start a vehicle so I will ensure that a vehicle will start before I use the spare battery for any emergency power use:-)
In an emergency, you have to remember that you can not do things the normal way, you probably will not be watching television or reading email on the computer at lot, You can keep the house warm enough to prevent freezing, but will be wearing a coat or sweaters in the house. If you live the south where power might go out during the summer, forget about trying to keep the house cool, run your fridge and freezer instead of a broiler or furnace, sure. but you don't have to run them at all times, just enough to keep them cool on the inside. Don't open them unless you need to get something out of them. Keep the water and drinks inside of a cooler/ice chest.
Donald

Donald Kinney wrote:

Vehicle is kinda self maintained and has built in fuel tank if its used daily it will likely start for emergency. maintence for emergency operations costs no more than normal operations besides having a full tank of gas, plus fuel storage isnt a issue
Okay a show of hands of those have ran their vehicle every day and did not plug the vehicle in over night one time when the temperature went way down and then found out the car would not start in the morning...
Snow-thrower has always started which has same size of engine as most generators... Have a piece of hose where I can get fuel... Have numerous flashlights, including one of those shake and get light ones...
Now, I do not own a generator but I do have an inverter that I can connect to my boiler (it has a pump to move the hot water to the radiators) for heating. Have a spare 12 volt battery that I can use and be charged by the vehicle if I need to or wait until power comes back on and charge with a normal battery charger. I have tested this system out but have never had to use it in an emergency:-)
As for charging the battery with the vehicle, I have to run the vehicle for 10-15 minutes anyhow in order to warm it up before driving in the cold anyhow, so I can jumper the spare battery at that time in order to charge it. I have used the spare battery to jump start a vehicle so I will ensure that a vehicle will start before I use the spare battery for any emergency power use:-)
In an emergency, you have to remember that you can not do things the normal way, you probably will not be watching television or reading email on the computer at lot, You can keep the house warm enough to prevent freezing, but will be wearing a coat or sweaters in the house. If you live the south where power might go out during the summer, forget about trying to keep the house cool, run your fridge and freezer instead of a broiler or furnace, sure. but you don't have to run them at all times, just enough to keep them cool on the inside. Don't open them unless you need to get something out of them. Keep the water and drinks inside of a cooler/ice chest.
Donald

People in REALLY hot areas tend to have a small window AC available to cool one small room during emergencies.
emergencies arent normal operations you tend to make do, and those who prepare in advance can make do better than those who completely ignored the threat

hallerb@aol.com wrote:

Even an improperly laid-up generator doesn't require any maintenance. I just fixed one that a friend had in a corner for a couple of years. It may have started on the old fuel, but instead I took about 10 minutes to drain it and clean the carb. Even if the OP had to do that, it's still preferable to running a car out of fuel during an extended outage, and then being without power *and* transportation.
yeah BUT your working under pressure in the dark ands might need parts, rubber stuff detoriates just sitting around. a gasoline engine just sitting around for perhap[s years will likely no start when need the most While we're on the subject... I have an off-grid neighbor whose backup generator died from overuse about two years back. So he's been using his pickup truck for backup ever since. Every time I see that truck in his yard, the hood is up. To him it probably makes sense, 'cause in any single month his government check can cover the extra fuel, but not another generator. Sooner or later the truck will expire, and he'll find out that fixing up the solar setup would have cost less. It's a perfect example of how the ignorant often stay on the bottom rung of the ladder no matter how much easier it would be to climb. A description that fits Gymmy the solarfart as well.
Wayne
so the fellow with soplar doesnt have much money, yet you knock him from working with what hes got....
those oof us who have been or are broke likely understand better than you.
its highly likely he doesnt have the money for parts... the tuck rovides backup power and transportation.
Hey, you're talking to a guy who has a system that allows him to work

during the day. If he wants to continue working after dark he needs to start his gen set. He thinks he's state of the art.
-- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 17:46:31 -0800, Eric wrote:

Gordon wrote:
somebody@somewhere.com wrote in news:1i1co29u04lfi08fhtejrapfukntbsakon@ 4ax.com:
On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 02:53:17 GMT, Gordon <gonzo@alltomyself.com wrote:
What I have in mind is to clip the thing to the battery of my car. Run the car on a fast idle to keep the battery charged. Run an extension cord into the house and plug a few things in to get lights, TV, computer, maybe even run the fridge a bit. Not necessarily all at the same time.
So my question is how much power can a Nissan Altima be expected to supply. And how big (and what brands) of inverters can drive a rather generic refrigerator for (say) 30 minutes at a time. I've heard that motors have a difficult time running on inverters.

You would want at least a 1200 watt inverter to power a generic fridge. (BTDT) If you have the alternator supplying roughly 500 watts into the battery on a fairly continuous basis, then yeah, it could work, even though it is terribly inefficient.
Let's see; 1200 Watts is 10 Amps at 120 volts. So a good 1200 watt inverter should supply about a 20 amp peak. That's in line with what most fridges seem to need.
A 35amp alternator at 14volts is about 500watts. I think I'm getting the math. Wouldn't want to run the fridge all the time. But for 30 minutes evey 4 or so hours should be OK.
Be aware that you'll need something to push on the accelerator or grab the cable to get that fast idle, and that your mechanic probably won't like the idea, because cars and alternators aren't designed for that type of duty.
Pair of Vise Grips always works. Turn the throttle to about 2000 RPM, Clamp on the Vise Grips, Done.
A fridge can easily go a couple of days without power - especially if you drape it with some blankets.
We went 20 hours without power and lost no food. The hard part was keeping the kids out of it.
For emergency lighting?
We have a couple of camping lanterns and many flashlights. But having one bright light in the house would have been nice.
Laptops need minimal power, so unless you absolutely must have a big computer, that can be a great option.
I have a Dell laptop that would have worked, Powering up the DSL modem is what stymied me. I'll have to work on a battery backup for that.
TV? One of the plusses of being without power is the absence of tv, but little battery tvs are available for about $10.
Peak? an inverter will supply its wattage and thats it. Its not a generator. I had a 1000 W inverter and it wouldnt even start a gas furnace. The furnace solenoid would just go clickity clicity and thats it. It would run a bunch of lights tho. Eric

You best study some more Eric - inverters have peak and steady state rating - peak USUALLY about 160%.
-- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On 19 Dec 2006 04:48:19 -0500, nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu wrote:

Gordon wrote:
... And buying a block of Ice for the fridge may be a better solution to keeping the food from going bad.
Good idea. Or put some 1 liter water bottles in the upper freezer compartment.
Nick Only works BEFORE the power goes out - and just TRY to buy ice during

a power failure.
-- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 20:46:26 -0500, Neon John wrote:

An altima probably has an alternator rated at no more than 60 amps which you can figure for 30-35 amps continuous. 35 amps at 13 volts is only 390 watts.

Come again? 35 amps will not run the heater fan, headlights, rear defogger and wipers at the same time, much less keep the ignition and fuel injection going at the same time. If it's an air conditioned car it has an alternator that will maintain 65 amps. Might be rated at 100, but that's for about 2 minutes, tops. The 135 amp GM alternators will put out 65 all day, but will burn out trying to charge one dead battery - but that's crappy GM design.
-- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Yup, real smart example of how our resident troll thinks.
"wmbjk" wrote in message

On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 20:46:26 -0500, Neon John wrote:
"Even an improperly laid-up generator doesn't require any maintenance."
"I just fixed one that a friend had in a corner for a couple of years."
"I took about 10 minutes to drain it and clean the carb".
"off-grid neighbor whose backup generator died"
Wayne

<clarence at snyder dot on dot ca> wrote:

... put some 1 liter water bottles in the upper freezer compartment.
Only works BEFORE the power goes out...

Of course. What's the price for a day of coolth storage, vs a battery?
Nick

On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 07:50:27 +1100, George Ghio wrote:

Hey, you're talking to a guy who has a system that allows him to work during the day. If he wants to continue working after dark he needs to start his gen set. He thinks he's state of the art.

Let's see, my biggest shop loads are the 250A mig welder and the 40A plasma cutter, either of which sometimes use over 400A DC for short duration. When one is using >8000W, having 2000W nominal PV lit up doesn't change much. It doesn't matter if those loads are run day or night, or if the array breakers are open or closed. But let's imagine that there *was* someone who could only run their workshop off their solar setup by day. Wouldn't that be far superior to needing a generator day *and* night for *any* load over a few hundred Watts as you do? If you'd ever get out of your chair long enough to lay your hands on something better than a 5% solar setup, then you might learn enough to avoid making it so painfully obvious that the only experience you have to offer is in flinging BS.
Wayne

On 20 Dec 2006 06:56:41 -0800, "hallerb@aol.com" wrote:

Even an improperly laid-up generator doesn't require any maintenance. I just fixed one that a friend had in a corner for a couple of years. It may have started on the old fuel, but instead I took about 10 minutes to drain it and clean the carb. Even if the OP had to do that, it's still preferable to running a car out of fuel during an extended outage, and then being without power *and* transportation.
yeah BUT your working under pressure in the dark ands might need parts, rubber stuff detoriates just sitting around. a gasoline engine just sitting around for perhap[s years will likely no start when need the most

Oh please. If there's an ice storm, hurricane, heat wave or whatever on its way, then that's the time to make sure your backup source is operational. It's not as if the possibility of extended outages sneak up out of nowhere. And considering how cheap small generators have become, smart folks have a backup to the backup as well.
There *are* some advantages to an inverter-vehicle setup, but for most folks a portable generator is a superior way to go, which is why it's the most popular solution.

While we're on the subject... I have an off-grid neighbor whose backup generator died from overuse about two years back. So he's been using his pickup truck for backup ever since. Every time I see that truck in his yard, the hood is up. To him it probably makes sense, 'cause in any single month his government check can cover the extra fuel, but not another generator. Sooner or later the truck will expire, and he'll find out that fixing up the solar setup would have cost less. It's a perfect example of how the ignorant often stay on the bottom rung of the ladder no matter how much easier it would be to climb. A description that fits Gymmy the solarfart as well.
Wayne
so the fellow with soplar doesnt have much money, yet you knock him from working with what hes got....

No, I knocked him for spending more in the end than what it would have cost him earlier.

those oof us who have been or are broke likely understand better than you.

Those of us who've been broke know that there's a difference between being broke and being ignorant. In this case, a broke and ignorant guy with a truck uses it to power his television, whereas a merely broke guy would use the truck to carry himself to work. And if the satellite receiver and the TV were unplugged while he was away working, then he'd have a whole lot less need for a backup power source in the first place.

its highly likely he doesnt have the money for parts... the tuck rovides backup power and transportation.

He has money coming in every month, but paying for satellite TV and the fuel it takes to watch it is a higher priority than getting ahead. He can't survive without transportation, so when the truck dies he'll fund repairs by doing without junk food or TV or whatever for a while, or by getting off his butt and hauling some of the crap littering his place to the scrap yard. Either that or some social worker who doesn't know the difference between a temporary setback and permanent dysfunction will find him one of those paid-to-be-retrained deals.
Wayne

On Wed, 20 Dec 2006 17:25:42 -0500, "Solar Flare" wrote:

"wmbjk" wrote in message On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 20:46:26 -0500, Neon John wrote:
"Even an improperly laid-up generator doesn't require any maintenance."
"I just fixed one that a friend had in a corner for a couple of years."
"I took about 10 minutes to drain it and clean the carb".
Yup, real smart example of how our resident troll thinks.

As opposed to those who imagine that starting even a long-unused small engine requires crossing broken-glass road barefoot, and then wading through rubbing-alcohol creek. Get a generator and try pulling the cord Gymmy Bob, you'll learn that starting it is one more thing in life that isn't as difficult as the voices have been telling you.
Wayne

Now where would we get 2000W nominal rated PV panels? All the ones I have seen advertised have a maximum figure on them. Do you only light up 2000W during the dark times? How does that work?
Does the nominal rating take into account night time when it is dark too? Is it prorated or just something you made up to argue endlessly and aimlessly with George?
Seek professional help for that insecurity there Weiner.
Ooooops. Now the alter ego ghosts will show up again to rescue you. At least you won't be alone then.
"wmbjk" wrote in message

On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 07:50:27 +1100, George Ghio ghio@nobodyhome.com.au> wrote:
Hey, you're talking to a guy who has a system that allows him to work during the day. If he wants to continue working after dark he needs to start his gen set. He thinks he's state of the art.
Let's see, my biggest shop loads are the 250A mig welder and the 40A plasma cutter, either of which sometimes use over 400A DC for short duration. When one is using >8000W, having 2000W nominal PV lit up doesn't change much. It doesn't matter if those loads are run day or night, or if the array breakers are open or closed. But let's imagine that there *was* someone who could only run their workshop off their solar setup by day. Wouldn't that be far superior to needing a generator day *and* night for *any* load over a few hundred Watts as you do? If you'd ever get out of your chair long enough to lay your hands on something better than a 5% solar setup, then you might learn enough to avoid making it so painfully obvious that the only experience you have to offer is in flinging BS.
Wayne

I bet he paid less for his truck than you spent on your "alternative energy" system and he doesn't have to brag about it and show pictures of it instead of having kid's pics in his wallet.
"wmbjk" wrote in message

On 20 Dec 2006 06:56:41 -0800, "hallerb@aol.com" <hallerb@aol.com wrote:
Even an improperly laid-up generator doesn't require any maintenance. I just fixed one that a friend had in a corner for a couple of years. It may have started on the old fuel, but instead I took about 10 minutes to drain it and clean the carb. Even if the OP had to do that, it's still preferable to running a car out of fuel during an extended outage, and then being without power *and* transportation.
yeah BUT your working under pressure in the dark ands might need parts, rubber stuff detoriates just sitting around. a gasoline engine just sitting around for perhap[s years will likely no start when need the most
Oh please. If there's an ice storm, hurricane, heat wave or whatever on its way, then that's the time to make sure your backup source is operational. It's not as if the possibility of extended outages sneak up out of nowhere. And considering how cheap small generators have become, smart folks have a backup to the backup as well.
There *are* some advantages to an inverter-vehicle setup, but for most folks a portable generator is a superior way to go, which is why it's the most popular solution.
While we're on the subject... I have an off-grid neighbor whose backup generator died from overuse about two years back. So he's been using his pickup truck for backup ever since. Every time I see that truck in his yard, the hood is up. To him it probably makes sense, 'cause in any single month his government check can cover the extra fuel, but not another generator. Sooner or later the truck will expire, and he'll find out that fixing up the solar setup would have cost less. It's a perfect example of how the ignorant often stay on the bottom rung of the ladder no matter how much easier it would be to climb. A description that fits Gymmy the solarfart as well.
Wayne
so the fellow with soplar doesnt have much money, yet you knock him from working with what hes got....
No, I knocked him for spending more in the end than what it would have cost him earlier.
those oof us who have been or are broke likely understand better than you.
Those of us who've been broke know that there's a difference between being broke and being ignorant. In this case, a broke and ignorant guy with a truck uses it to power his television, whereas a merely broke guy would use the truck to carry himself to work. And if the satellite receiver and the TV were unplugged while he was away working, then he'd have a whole lot less need for a backup power source in the first place.
its highly likely he doesnt have the money for parts... the tuck rovides backup power and transportation.
He has money coming in every month, but paying for satellite TV and the fuel it takes to watch it is a higher priority than getting ahead. He can't survive without transportation, so when the truck dies he'll fund repairs by doing without junk food or TV or whatever for a while, or by getting off his butt and hauling some of the crap littering his place to the scrap yard. Either that or some social worker who doesn't know the difference between a temporary setback and permanent dysfunction will find him one of those paid-to-be-retrained deals.
Wayne

Your alter egos should be joining us shortly to support your lack of reading skills.
"wmbjk" wrote in message

On Wed, 20 Dec 2006 17:25:42 -0500, "Solar Flare" solaerfart@hootmail.invalidated> wrote:
"wmbjk" wrote in message On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 20:46:26 -0500, Neon John <no@never.com wrote:
"Even an improperly laid-up generator doesn't require any maintenance."
"I just fixed one that a friend had in a corner for a couple of years."
"I took about 10 minutes to drain it and clean the carb".
Yup, real smart example of how our resident troll thinks.
As opposed to those who imagine that starting even a long-unused small engine requires crossing broken-glass road barefoot, and then wading through rubbing-alcohol creek. Get a generator and try pulling the cord Gymmy Bob, you'll learn that starting it is one more thing in life that isn't as difficult as the voices have been telling you.
Wayne

wmbjk wrote:

There *are* some advantages to an inverter-vehicle setup,

Sure. Very low entry cost. I grabbed a couple of 200 watt Coleman inverters at CostCo a while ago and tossed one in each car. I'm not sure we've used it for more than recharging a GameBoy on a camping trip.

[...] but for most folks a portable generator is a superior way to go, which is why it's the most popular solution.

Let's take this car/small inverter thing to a bit more extreme. How about parallelling two car batteries with jumper cables? Under heavy loads, both cars could be run, resulting in both alternators feeding the batteries.
Sure, it's inefficient as hell. But would it work? Would the two alternators output be additive? Or would the two alternators confuse the hell out of each other??