2 KW Gennie 100 ft To House: Wire?

It's finally dawned on me that the right place to run my little Honda E2000 is right where it's stored: in the garden shed. Plenty ventilation, protected from the elements, lockable....
It's 100 feet to get power into the house.
I'm guessing that 100 feet of 10/3 would be adequate just because that seems tb the largest they sell at Home Depot.
Stuff's not cheap. Is it overkill?
Anybody got a formula: Load vs Distance?
For occasional (1-2x per year) use, would plain old Romex be out of the question? -- PeteCresswell

On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 15:18:10 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)" wrote:

It's finally dawned on me that the right place to run my little Honda E2000 is right where it's stored: in the garden shed. Plenty ventilation, protected from the elements, lockable....
It's 100 feet to get power into the house.
I'm guessing that 100 feet of 10/3 would be adequate just because that seems tb the largest they sell at Home Depot.
Stuff's not cheap. Is it overkill?
Anybody got a formula: Load vs Distance?

Google is your friend if you don't have an NEC handy.

For occasional (1-2x per year) use, would plain old Romex be out of the question?

That'll be fine. I used several long "cords" made of Romex every weekend for a long time. I kept it spooled in about a 4 ft diameter coil so that it wouldn't kink or take a set. Worked fine.
John --- John De Armond See my website for my current email address http://www.neon-john.com Cleveland, Occupied TN Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain

On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 15:18:10 -0500, (PeteCresswell) wrote:

It's finally dawned on me that the right place to run my little Honda E2000 is right where it's stored: in the garden shed. Plenty ventilation, protected from the elements, lockable....
It's 100 feet to get power into the house.
I'm guessing that 100 feet of 10/3 would be adequate just because that seems tb the largest they sell at Home Depot.
Stuff's not cheap. Is it overkill?
Anybody got a formula: Load vs Distance?
For occasional (1-2x per year) use, would plain old Romex be out of the question?

Is that 2 kW at 115v? That's 17A and can be carried by 10 gauge wire just fine. Voltage drop would amount to approximately 200 ft * 0.001 ohms/ft * 17 A = 3.4 volts.
i
AWG Wire Table for BARE COPPER Wire Compiled by a program written by Fr. Tom McGahee
Compiled by Fr. Tom McGahee tom_mcgahee@sigmais.com Permission granted to copy freely so long as credit line above is included
AWG = American Wire Gauge size Dia-mils = Diameter in mils (1 mil = .001 inch) TPI = Turns Per Inch (Ignoring thickness of unknown insulation) Dia-mm = Diameter in millimeters (For comparison with non-USA coilers) Circ-mils = Circular Mils. (circular mils = diameter in mils squared) Ohms/Kft = Ohms Per 1,000 Feet Ft/Ohm = Feet Per Ohm Ft/Lb = Feet Per Pound Ohms/Lb = Ohms Per Pound Lb/Kft = Pounds Per 1,000 Feet NormAmps = Normal Average Amp Capacity based on 500 circular mils per Amp MaxAmps = Maximum recommended Average Amp Capacity in Open Air based on 438.489 circular mils per Amp
Actual Amp capacity of a wire depends on form factor and method of cooling! MaxAmps assumes free flow of air around wire. Do NOT exceed this maximum without cooling! Wire wrapped in a coil or without any form of cooling may over-heat at MaxAmps! Many factors govern the ACTUAL Max Amps you can pass through a wire continuously. Be careful!

AWG Dia-mils TPI Dia-mm Circ-mils Ohms/Kft Ft/Ohm Ft/Lb Ohms/Lb Lb/Kft NormAmps MaxAmps
0000 459.99 2.1740 11.684 211592 0.0490 20402 1.5613 0.0001 640.48 423.18 482.55 000 409.63 2.4412 10.405 167800 0.0618 16180 1.9688 0.0001 507.93 335.60 382.68 00 364.79 2.7413 9.2657 133072 0.0779 12831 2.4826 0.0002 402.80 266.14 303.48
AWG Dia-mils TPI Dia-mm Circ-mils Ohms/Kft Ft/Ohm Ft/Lb Ohms/Lb Lb/Kft NormAmps MaxAmps
0 324.85 3.0783 8.2513 105531 0.0983 10175 3.1305 0.0003 319.44 211.06 240.67 1 289.29 3.4567 7.3480 83690 0.1239 8069.5 3.9475 0.0005 253.33 167.38 190.86 2 257.62 3.8817 6.5436 66369 0.1563 6399.4 4.9777 0.0008 200.90 132.74 151.36 3 229.42 4.3588 5.8272 52633 0.1970 5075.0 6.2767 0.0012 159.32 105.27 120.03 4 204.30 4.8947 5.1893 41740 0.2485 4024.7 7.9148 0.0020 126.35 83.480 95.190 5 181.94 5.4964 4.6212 33101 0.3133 3191.7 9.9804 0.0031 100.20 66.203 75.489 6 162.02 6.1721 4.1153 26251 0.3951 2531.1 12.585 0.0050 79.460 52.501 59.866 7 144.28 6.9308 3.6648 20818 0.4982 2007.3 15.869 0.0079 63.014 41.635 47.476 8 128.49 7.7828 3.2636 16509 0.6282 1591.8 20.011 0.0126 49.973 33.018 37.650 9 114.42 8.7396 2.9063 13092 0.7921 1262.4 25.233 0.0200 39.630 26.185 29.858
AWG Dia-mils TPI Dia-mm Circ-mils Ohms/Kft Ft/Ohm Ft/Lb Ohms/Lb Lb/Kft NormAmps MaxAmps
10 101.90 9.8140 2.5881 10383 0.9989 1001.1 31.819 0.0318 31.428 20.765 23.678 11 90.741 11.020 2.3048 8233.9 1.2596 793.93 40.122 0.0505 24.924 16.468 18.778 12 80.807 12.375 2.0525 6529.8 1.5883 629.61 50.593 0.0804 19.765 13.060 14.892 13 71.961 13.896 1.8278 5178.3 2.0028 499.31 63.797 0.1278 15.675 10.357 11.810 14 64.083 15.605 1.6277 4106.6 2.5255 395.97 80.447 0.2031 12.431 8.2132 9.3654 15 57.067 17.523 1.4495 3256.7 3.1845 314.02 101.44 0.3230 9.8579 6.5134 7.4271 16 50.820 19.677 1.2908 2582.7 4.0156 249.03 127.91 0.5136 7.8177 5.1654 5.8900 17 45.257 22.096 1.1495 2048.2 5.0636 197.49 161.30 0.8167 6.1997 4.0963 4.6709 18 40.302 24.813 1.0237 1624.3 6.3851 156.62 203.39 1.2986 4.9166 3.2485 3.7042 19 35.890 27.863 0.9116 1288.1 8.0514 124.20 256.47 2.0648 3.8991 2.5762 2.9376
AWG Dia-mils TPI Dia-mm Circ-mils Ohms/Kft Ft/Ohm Ft/Lb Ohms/Lb Lb/Kft NormAmps MaxAmps
20 31.961 31.288 0.8118 1021.5 10.153 98.496 323.41 3.2832 3.0921 2.0430 2.3296 21 28.462 35.134 0.7229 810.10 12.802 78.111 407.81 5.2205 2.4521 1.6202 1.8475 22 25.346 39.453 0.6438 642.44 16.143 61.945 514.23 8.3009 1.9446 1.2849 1.4651 23 22.572 44.304 0.5733 509.48 20.356 49.125 648.44 13.199 1.5422 1.0190 1.1619 24 20.101 49.750 0.5106 404.03 25.669 38.958 817.66 20.987 1.2230 0.8081 0.9214 25 17.900 55.866 0.4547 320.41 32.368 30.895 1031.1 33.371 0.9699 0.6408 0.7307 26 15.940 62.733 0.4049 254.10 40.815 24.501 1300.1 53.061 0.7692 0.5082 0.5795 27 14.195 70.445 0.3606 201.51 51.467 19.430 1639.4 84.371 0.6100 0.4030 0.4596 28 12.641 79.105 0.3211 159.80 64.898 15.409 2067.3 134.15 0.4837 0.3196 0.3644 29 11.257 88.830 0.2859 126.73 81.835 12.220 2606.8 213.31 0.3836 0.2535 0.2890
AWG Dia-mils TPI Dia-mm Circ-mils Ohms/Kft Ft/Ohm Ft/Lb Ohms/Lb Lb/Kft NormAmps MaxAmps
30 10.025 99.750 0.2546 100.50 103.19 9.6906 3287.1 339.18 0.3042 0.2010 0.2292 31 8.9276 112.01 0.2268 79.702 130.12 7.6850 4145.0 539.32 0.2413 0.1594 0.1818 32 7.9503 125.78 0.2019 63.207 164.08 6.0945 5226.7 857.55 0.1913 0.1264 0.1441 33 7.0799 141.24 0.1798 50.125 206.90 4.8332 6590.8 1363.6 0.1517 0.1003 0.1143 34 6.3048 158.61 0.1601 39.751 260.90 3.8329 8310.8 2168.1 0.1203 0.0795 0.0907 35 5.6146 178.11 0.1426 31.524 328.99 3.0396 10480 3447.5 0.0954 0.0630 0.0719 36 5.0000 200.00 0.1270 25.000 414.85 2.4105 13215 5481.7 0.0757 0.0500 0.0570 37 4.4526 224.59 0.1131 19.826 523.11 1.9116 16663 8716.2 0.0600 0.0397 0.0452 38 3.9652 252.20 0.1007 15.723 659.63 1.5160 21012 13859 0.0476 0.0314 0.0359 39 3.5311 283.20 0.0897 12.469 831.78 1.2022 26496 22037 0.0377 0.0249 0.0284
AWG Dia-mils TPI Dia-mm Circ-mils Ohms/Kft Ft/Ohm Ft/Lb Ohms/Lb Lb/Kft NormAmps MaxAmps
40 3.1445 318.01 0.0799 9.8880 1048.9 0.9534 33410 35040 0.0299 0.0198 0.0226


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Main Thread

Why would you pay for an extra conductor that isn't useful?
"(PeteCresswell)" wrote in message

I'm guessing that 100 feet of 10/3 would be adequate just because that seems tb the largest they sell at Home Depot.
Stuff's not cheap. Is it overkill?

For occasional (1-2x per year) use, would plain old Romex be out of the question?

Short answer; The Romex will work. Better answer; If available, pay a little bit more and get type UF. UF looks just like Romex, but is made to tolerate dampness. If you wish at some later date, it is OK to dig a ditch and direct bury the UF (it is NOT OK to do that with Romex).
If you ever do the "dig", drop at least one empty conduit in the ditch, preferably several.
Vaughn

-- PeteCresswell

"Solar Flare" wrote in message

Why would you pay for an extra conductor that isn't useful?

You need the ground wire because the frame of the genny should be grounded for safety.
Technically speaking, I believe that if the generator is going to be wired to a transfer wire, the ground goes to the generator frame and not the ground terminal on the generator receptical. Correct?
Vaughn

I use 100ft contractors power cord between my EU3000 and my inverter. I'm not sure of the gauge, but I have not had a problem in voltage drop. I bought the heaviest that I could find at the local hardware store. I run it at about 17-20 amps load. That is not an uncommon load for power tools. You should have no problem with 10/3.
It can be a royal pain to try and roll up or manage romex. I used romex to my old generator. In that respect, a heavy duty extension cord is preferable.
If you do go with romex, you should get the type that is made to be buried. It is water proof. You might also consider burying it to remove it as a trip hazard. The price of all copper has skyrocketed in the last year. 250' of 14/2 was nearly $100. That's nearly 3 times what it was last year. Ouch!
I'd actually think it would be easier to carry an EU2000 closer to the house than try and unwind and manage 100' of romex.
Of course, if it is 100' away in a shed, you are even less likely to hear it.
Just my $.02
"(PeteCresswell)" wrote in message

It's finally dawned on me that the right place to run my little Honda E2000 is right where it's stored: in the garden shed. Plenty ventilation, protected from the elements, lockable....
It's 100 feet to get power into the house.
I'm guessing that 100 feet of 10/3 would be adequate just because that seems tb the largest they sell at Home Depot.
Stuff's not cheap. Is it overkill?
Anybody got a formula: Load vs Distance?
For occasional (1-2x per year) use, would plain old Romex be out of the question? -- PeteCresswell

Per Vaughn Simon:

You need the ground wire because the frame of the genny should be grounded for safety.
Technically speaking, I believe that if the generator is going to be wired to a transfer wire, the ground goes to the generator frame and not the ground terminal on the generator receptical. Correct?

You've raised another reason why it makes more sense to run this thing in the garden shed. I can pound a ground into the earth next to the shed and run a wire inside. -- PeteCresswell

Per Bughunter:

I'd actually think it would be easier to carry an EU2000 closer to the house than try and unwind and manage 100' of romex.

That's where I was at first. The thing is quiet enough to be quite close to the house.
But this afternoon a squall came through our area: 40-mph winds, driving rain... and so-forth. Lights dimmed a few times, but the power stayed on.
But looking at the conditions got me thinking that leaving the gennie out in that kind of weather can't be good - and there's also the thought of refueling it under those conditions... so the shed has become attractive.
I think I'll just bite the bullet and buy 100' of 10/3 extension cord.
-- PeteCresswell

(PeteCresswell) wrote:

It's finally dawned on me that the right place to run my little Honda E2000 is right where it's stored: in the garden shed. Plenty ventilation, protected from the elements, lockable....
It's 100 feet to get power into the house.
I'm guessing that 100 feet of 10/3 would be adequate just because that seems tb the largest they sell at Home Depot.

Gawd, Pete, don't let *that* be a guide, use a power loss spreadsheet. Tons of them on the net, like at electrician.com.

Stuff's not cheap. Is it overkill?

Actually, it's bang on (<4% loss to 20a). Maybe I ought to rethink the "What would Home Depot Do?" rule ;-).

Anybody got a formula: Load vs Distance?

As said, #10 is good. But probably cheaper to buy it from an electrical supply place. Off hand, if you can find some direct burial submersible pump wire in #10, that might be sufficient.

For occasional (1-2x per year) use, would plain old Romex be out of the question?

Do-able, but not rated to be walked on, and not rated to be buried. You'd have to coil it up after every use...
DJ

Not sure about that grounding the frame. It should be both connected together or the frame to a ground stake beside it for safety (feet and hands at the same potential)
Get this down. 10/3 cable has 3 conductors with different colour insulation and one ground wire in bare copper for a total of four conductors. The bare ground conductor never counts in the wire spec. It is assumed.
"Vaughn Simon" wrote in message

"Solar Flare" wrote in message Why would you pay for an extra conductor that isn't useful?
You need the ground wire because the frame of the genny should be grounded for safety.
Technically speaking, I believe that if the generator is going to be wired to a transfer wire, the ground goes to the generator frame and not the ground terminal on the generator receptical. Correct?
Vaughn

On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 15:18:10 -0500, (PeteCresswell) wrote:

It's finally dawned on me that the right place to run my little Honda E2000 is right where it's stored: in the garden shed. Plenty ventilation, protected from the elements, lockable....

Just be careful entering that shed after your generator started running. As for ventilation, hot air would need to be removed from the shed.
i

It's 100 feet to get power into the house.
I'm guessing that 100 feet of 10/3 would be adequate just because that seems tb the largest they sell at Home Depot.
Stuff's not cheap. Is it overkill?
Anybody got a formula: Load vs Distance?
For occasional (1-2x per year) use, would plain old Romex be out of the question?

Per Solar Flare:

Get this down. 10/3 cable has 3 conductors with different colour insulation and one ground wire in bare copper for a total of four conductors. The bare ground conductor never counts in the wire spec. It is assumed.

Now what you noted in the previous post has sunk in..... 10/3 really is overkill.... Just as you said, I had made the erroneous assumption that 10/2 would not have a ground wire.
Thanks. -- PeteCresswell

In article , "Vaughn Simon" wrote:

For occasional (1-2x per year) use, would plain old Romex be out of the question?
Short answer; The Romex will work. Better answer; If available, pay a little bit more and get type UF. UF looks just like Romex, but is made to tolerate dampness. If you wish at some later date, it is OK to dig a ditch and direct bury the UF (it is NOT OK to do that with Romex).
If you ever do the "dig", drop at least one empty conduit in the ditch, preferably several.

I'll second that, bite the bullet and put in an empty conduit larger than you think you'll ever need. ;)
-- Free men own guns - www.geocities/CapitolHill/5357/

"(PeteCresswell)" wrote in message

It's finally dawned on me that the right place to run my little Honda E2000 is right where it's stored: in the garden shed. Plenty ventilation, protected from the elements, lockable....
It's 100 feet to get power into the house.
I'm guessing that 100 feet of 10/3 would be adequate just because that seems tb the largest they sell at Home Depot.
Stuff's not cheap. Is it overkill?
Anybody got a formula: Load vs Distance?
For occasional (1-2x per year) use, would plain old Romex be out of the question? -- PeteCresswell

I would buy a #12 100' long outdoor extension cord, it will cost you about $50 and you can use it for other things.