Generator too small for Trace 3024 inverter?

I bought a second hand solar outfit comprising of the following.
Trace SW3024 Inverter 24v Battery Bank 769 amp hour
My question is this.
I'm attempting to charge the battery bank with a small 1.1kva generator. The generator sits at a steady 254v but the charger(within the inverter) doesn't pull anything from it. I've set all the settings correctly and specifically the MAX AC AMPs from the generator at 4amps. The AC power good light comes on the inverter (indicating a stable, syncronised power source) but the generator sits completely unloaded.
This is what currently happens. Generator AC good light comes on. The 'bulk' light comes on momentarily on the inverter and then then goes off after about 1 second. During this time the generator is never under any load what so ever.
I called the guy that I bought it off and the first question he asked me is what size is the generator. When I told him he said 'that's nowhere big enough' and said that he had exactly the same issue when his big generator ran out and he attempted to use a 1.1kva generator also.
I believe he's being absolutely kosher about it, but I just wondered if it sounded kosher to you blokes with plenty of experience. I'm suprised that it wouldn't draw 'anything' from the generator.
Does anyone have any experience with Trace/Xantrex inverters with small generators which would back this up?
Cheers Steve

On 12 Nov 2006 15:41:23 -0800, lovingit69@gmail.com wrote:

I bought a second hand solar outfit comprising of the following.
Trace SW3024 Inverter 24v Battery Bank 769 amp hour
My question is this.
I'm attempting to charge the battery bank with a small 1.1kva generator. The generator sits at a steady 254v but the charger(within the inverter) doesn't pull anything from it. I've set all the settings correctly and specifically the MAX AC AMPs from the generator at 4amps. The AC power good light comes on the inverter (indicating a stable, syncronised power source) but the generator sits completely unloaded.
This is what currently happens. Generator AC good light comes on. The 'bulk' light comes on momentarily on the inverter and then then goes off after about 1 second. During this time the generator is never under any load what so ever.
I called the guy that I bought it off and the first question he asked me is what size is the generator. When I told him he said 'that's nowhere big enough' and said that he had exactly the same issue when his big generator ran out and he attempted to use a 1.1kva generator also.
I believe he's being absolutely kosher about it, but I just wondered if it sounded kosher to you blokes with plenty of experience. I'm suprised that it wouldn't draw 'anything' from the generator.
Does anyone have any experience with Trace/Xantrex inverters with small generators which would back this up?
Cheers Steve

I have a pair of 4024s, and can set them to take as little from the generator as I want. The lower limit is zero IIRC. On mine (8 year old software revision, yours may be different) it works like this - the gen2 good light flashes until the inverter syncs with the generator (and the warm up timer expires I think), then turns solid when the inverter switches over, then the bulk light comes on, and the charger gradually loads down the generator to either the combination of loads and AC charge limits, or the AC2 max amps limit, whichever is less. Does your AC2good light start blinking again when the bulk light goes out? If so, the allowable voltage limits may need to be tweaked for your generator, or the generator rpm (frequency) may need adjustment. Also, the inverter will only go into bulk mode if the battery voltage is lower than the bulk voltage setting. Do you have loads running when the generator is started? Have you measured the generator voltage and frequency to see if they vary when the inverter goes into bulk temporarily?
Wayne

Thanks for the reply Wayne.
I checked the voltage of the generator on the inverter and it sits steady at 254. The AC voltage parameters for the AC2 source (generator) is set between 220v (min) and 260v (max) There are no loads connected what-so-ever. Generator voltage doesn't change at all when it momentarily goes into bulk mode. I haven't looked at the frequency but i don't get any errors when this occurs.
The exact actual sequence goes like this.
Ac 2 good light steadily lit Inverting light lights up for about 2 seconds Bulk Charge light comes on for about 1 second and then audible 'click' is heard as it switches back off. Rinse, repeat.
I have the AC AMPs Max set to 4.0 amps (240x4=960w) for 1100kva generator although it doesn't seem to matter what I set it at.
I thought that because the default Max AC AMPs figure for the inverter is 15amps that perhaps it was way under powered. But like you said, the setting can be set right down to zero which would indicate to me that you should be able to put a 4amps in ok. Some charge has got to be better than no charge at all.
The bulk volts setting is set at 28.8 from memory.
Obviously in the future I'll need a larger generator anyway but I want to ensure that there isn't something wrong. I had a look on the web and I found a document that indicated that a 5.5kva generator is the minimum for a similar model
On Nov 13, 11:42 am, wmbjk wrote:

On 12 Nov 2006 15:41:23 -0800, lovingi...@gmail.com wrote:


I bought a second hand solar outfit comprising of the following.
Trace SW3024 Inverter 24v Battery Bank 769 amp hour
My question is this.
I'm attempting to charge the battery bank with a small 1.1kva generator. The generator sits at a steady 254v but the charger(within the inverter) doesn't pull anything from it. I've set all the settings correctly and specifically the MAX AC AMPs from the generator at 4amps. The AC power good light comes on the inverter (indicating a stable, syncronised power source) but the generator sits completely unloaded.
This is what currently happens. Generator AC good light comes on. The 'bulk' light comes on momentarily on the inverter and then then goes off after about 1 second. During this time the generator is never under any load what so ever.
I called the guy that I bought it off and the first question he asked me is what size is the generator. When I told him he said 'that's nowhere big enough' and said that he had exactly the same issue when his big generator ran out and he attempted to use a 1.1kva generator also.
I believe he's being absolutely kosher about it, but I just wondered if it sounded kosher to you blokes with plenty of experience. I'm suprised that it wouldn't draw 'anything' from the generator.
Does anyone have any experience with Trace/Xantrex inverters with small generators which would back this up?
Cheers SteveI have a pair of 4024s, and can set them to take as little from the generator as I want. The lower limit is zero IIRC. On mine (8 year old software revision, yours may be different) it works like this - the gen2 good light flashes until the inverter syncs with the generator (and the warm up timer expires I think), then turns solid when the inverter switches over, then the bulk light comes on, and the charger gradually loads down the generator to either the combination of loads and AC charge limits, or the AC2 max amps limit, whichever is less. Does your AC2good light start blinking again when the bulk light goes out? If so, the allowable voltage limits may need to be tweaked for your generator, or the generator rpm (frequency) may need adjustment. Also, the inverter will only go into bulk mode if the battery voltage is lower than the bulk voltage setting. Do you have loads running when the generator is started? Have you measured the generator voltage and frequency to see if they vary when the inverter goes into bulk temporarily?
Wayne- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -

He's right. What I suspect is happening is that when the Trace applies the far too heavy load to the generator, the field de-excites and the output drops to zero for a sec. The Trace then trips on undervoltage and that's the way things sit until you reset the Trace.
I'm not familiar with that particular unit but many Trace chargers have a current limit control precisely to limit the line draw so that it can operate on low capacity lines and generators. You might check your manual.
Now, there's another thing to consider. Many types of PbA batteries need to be charged at least at the C/10 rate for long life. With your pack that would imply 77 amps. Not on every charge but every so often, in order to break up the harder crystals of lead sulfate that form from repeated partial charge/discharge cycles. No idea if your batteries require this but it's something to check with the mfr about.
John
On 12 Nov 2006 15:41:23 -0800, lovingit69@gmail.com wrote:

I bought a second hand solar outfit comprising of the following.
Trace SW3024 Inverter 24v Battery Bank 769 amp hour
My question is this.
I'm attempting to charge the battery bank with a small 1.1kva generator. The generator sits at a steady 254v but the charger(within the inverter) doesn't pull anything from it. I've set all the settings correctly and specifically the MAX AC AMPs from the generator at 4amps. The AC power good light comes on the inverter (indicating a stable, syncronised power source) but the generator sits completely unloaded.
This is what currently happens. Generator AC good light comes on. The 'bulk' light comes on momentarily on the inverter and then then goes off after about 1 second. During this time the generator is never under any load what so ever.
I called the guy that I bought it off and the first question he asked me is what size is the generator. When I told him he said 'that's nowhere big enough' and said that he had exactly the same issue when his big generator ran out and he attempted to use a 1.1kva generator also.
I believe he's being absolutely kosher about it, but I just wondered if it sounded kosher to you blokes with plenty of experience. I'm suprised that it wouldn't draw 'anything' from the generator.
Does anyone have any experience with Trace/Xantrex inverters with small generators which would back this up?
Cheers Steve ---

John De Armond See my website for my current email address http://www.neon-john.com Cleveland, Occupied TN Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain

On 12 Nov 2006 15:41:23 -0800, lovingit69@gmail.com wrote:

I bought a second hand solar outfit comprising of the following.
Trace SW3024 Inverter 24v Battery Bank 769 amp hour
My question is this.
I'm attempting to charge the battery bank with a small 1.1kva generator. The generator sits at a steady 254v but the charger(within the inverter) doesn't pull anything from it. I've set all the settings correctly and specifically the MAX AC AMPs from the generator at 4amps. The AC power good light comes on the inverter (indicating a stable, syncronised power source) but the generator sits completely unloaded.
This is what currently happens. Generator AC good light comes on. The 'bulk' light comes on momentarily on the inverter and then then goes off after about 1 second. During this time the generator is never under any load what so ever.
I called the guy that I bought it off and the first question he asked me is what size is the generator. When I told him he said 'that's nowhere big enough' and said that he had exactly the same issue when his big generator ran out and he attempted to use a 1.1kva generator also.
I believe he's being absolutely kosher about it, but I just wondered if it sounded kosher to you blokes with plenty of experience. I'm suprised that it wouldn't draw 'anything' from the generator.
Does anyone have any experience with Trace/Xantrex inverters with small generators which would back this up?
Cheers Steve

I don't know about the DR series, but on the SW series you can see that sequence if the circuit breaker on the outside of the unit is open.
It'll also happen if the voltage or frequency is out of sync range.
-- ron (off the grid in Downeast Maine)

On 12 Nov 2006 18:46:31 -0800, lovingit69@gmail.com wrote:

Thanks for the reply Wayne.
I checked the voltage of the generator on the inverter and it sits steady at 254. The AC voltage parameters for the AC2 source (generator) is set between 220v (min) and 260v (max) There are no loads connected what-so-ever. Generator voltage doesn't change at all when it momentarily goes into bulk mode. I haven't looked at the frequency but i don't get any errors when this occurs.
The exact actual sequence goes like this.
Ac 2 good light steadily lit

Does it flash for a time while the inverter syncs to the generator?

Inverting light lights up for about 2 seconds

Is the inverter in inv/chg mode (ON) or charge-only (CHG)? Whatever it is, you might try changing to the other. You could also try connecting some small loads to both the inverter and the generator. For comparison, mine are in inv/chg mode all the time, there are always loads, and the inv light is always on.

Bulk Charge light comes on for about 1 second and then audible 'click' is heard as it switches back off. Rinse, repeat.
I have the AC AMPs Max set to 4.0 amps (240x4=960w) for 1100kva generator although it doesn't seem to matter what I set it at.
I thought that because the default Max AC AMPs figure for the inverter is 15amps that perhaps it was way under powered. But like you said, the setting can be set right down to zero which would indicate to me that you should be able to put a 4amps in ok. Some charge has got to be better than no charge at all.
The bulk volts setting is set at 28.8 from memory.
Obviously in the future I'll need a larger generator anyway but I want to ensure that there isn't something wrong. I had a look on the web and I found a document that indicated that a 5.5kva generator is the minimum for a similar model

Got a link? That doc doesn't make sense to me since I've had a 2.5kW generator connected to mine without trouble. The inverter hasn't any way to tell how big a generator is connected, only whether it can supply the allowable voltage and frequency specified.
Wayne

Thanks everyone...
I had another good look last night and realised that I had one of the settings wrong. Pretty embarressing actually The set max charge amps was set to zero, hence the problem. I'm new to all this so it's a bit of a steep learning curve.
I manage to get the generator to spin up last night and some useful charge went in. Will obviously need to get another generator at some point but at least it's working.
Your time and effort are much appreciated.

That doc doesn't make sense to me since I've had a 2.5kW

generator connected to mine without trouble. The inverter hasn't any way to tell how big a generator is connected, only whether it can supply the allowable voltage and frequency specified.
Wayne- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -

On 13 Nov 2006 14:03:01 -0800, lovingit69@gmail.com wrote:

I had another good look last night and realised that I had one of the settings wrong. Pretty embarressing actually The set max charge amps was set to zero, hence the problem. I'm new to all this so it's a bit of a steep learning curve.

:)
I was going to mention, with my generator (about 4kw continuous) sometimes the Trace will not sync to it. I've found if I put a 100w light on the generator, the trace will sync just fine. Then I can turn off the light and the trace will be happy until it stops charging from the gen. At that point it will (usually) lose sync and not regain. It appears that the generator with no load is hunting just a bit and the trace does not like to see the frequency vary. With a bit of load then all is well.
sdb
-- Wanted: Omnibook 800 & accessories, cheap, working or not sdbuse1 on mailhost bigfoot.com

sylvan butler wrote: ....

I was going to mention, with my generator (about 4kw continuous) sometimes the Trace will not sync to it. I've found if I put a 100w light on the generator, the trace will sync just fine.

Just out of curiosity, have your tried lesser wattage bulbs? For instance, would a 40W light work?
Anthony

Neon John wrote:

I'm not familiar with that particular unit but many Trace chargers have a current limit control precisely to limit the line draw so that it can operate on low capacity lines and generators. You might check your manual.

Yep. Mine has selectable charging amps via the dip switches, and it is a fairly early model.

On Wed, 15 Nov 2006 01:50:03 GMT, Anthony Matonak wrote:

sylvan butler wrote: ... I was going to mention, with my generator (about 4kw continuous) sometimes the Trace will not sync to it. I've found if I put a 100w light on the generator, the trace will sync just fine.
Just out of curiosity, have your tried lesser wattage bulbs? For instance, would a 40W light work?

I haven't tried anything smaller. I keep a trouble light handy with a 100w bulb, so I use it. A 500w construction floodlight does work. :)
sdb
-- Wanted: Omnibook 800 & accessories, cheap, working or not sdbuse1 on mailhost bigfoot.com