Siting of panels for solar water heating

"John Beardmore" wrote in message <snip>

This has a direct negative environmental impact, as those hours could be spent doing something genuinely useful, some of which things would inlude the things you want to see happen, such as installation of insulation, solar hw,

Andy seems to have changed his opinion about solar hw ...

Works for us !
I think one of the things that Peter Harper at CAT said a few years ago re waste separation was
"Quit while you're ahead !".
He explained this to mean
Separate everything that can quickly be separated.
Don't waste time on things with no residual value that nobody wants.
Works for me.

And us.
Mary

Cheers, J/. -- John Beardmore

"David Hansen" wrote in message

On Thu, 30 Nov 2006 02:27:21 +0000 someone who may be John Beardmore wookie@wookie.demon.co.uk> wrote this:-
those customers wiling to spend their valuable time sifting their garbage.
Well - it doesn't take long.
Indeed. I think the main thing needed is a little organisation, just like many things.
As Phil said the main thing is to reduce the amount of packaging and the like taken into the house and reuse some of it. After that it depends what the scheme is on one's area. If there is a scheme where staff sort a mixed box at the kerbside then anything recyclable just goes into a suitable container, to be taken out when convenient. If there are separate bins then it makes sense to have separate containers (or a multi- compartment container) corresponding to each bin, which are taken out as necessary. The containers can be canvas or string bags hung on hooks, some sort of box or even just little piles somewhere convenient.
Properly organised one has the item in one's hand and instead of throwing it in a residual waste bin one throws it in the appropriate container.
As soon as a recyclable happens in our house I take it straight to the green bin outside - it's part of my exercise routine :-) Non recyclables are put in a carrier hanging next to the door. When it's full (up to twice a week) it's put in the brown bin.
Taking things out to put in a box or bin beside the residual bin is no more difficult than taking things out to put in the residual bin. Wandering past a recycling point and dropping things in can generally be organised as part of another trip.

We generate one wine bottle a day unless we have guests (when there are more). Spouse loads his scooter top box and panniers with them when he gos to the post off, chemist or whatever. It's no problem.

If some people really think this is too difficult or takes too long then perhaps they should ask their local waste advisor to give them some advice.

I agree. But I suspect that anyone admitting that would feel foolish.
Mary >

"Phil Bradshaw" wrote in message

Take 10 busted metric pallets, dismantle same, build (a) 1 compost bin of ~1 cu metre capacity to suit available space, (b) temporary storage shelving to tidy up the workshop and (c) have enough boards left to make a cold frame using glass from a scrap double-glazed door.
:-)

Oh come on! Who would bother doing all that?
:-)
We built an extension for the bee shed using pallet boards, about twenty years ago. It was painted on the outside with creosote and it's needed no treatment since.
Mary >

"Guy King" wrote in message

The message <456e172d$0$765$4c56ba96@master.news.zetnet.net from "Mary Fisher" contains these words:
Drag it.
You've seen 'em?
LOL!
Yup - and had words with 'em about it. I've also made loads of trips to the dump for neighbours who otherwise have no way of getting rid of bulky items.
And how do you know it's done by people without sufficient funds?
If you lived round here, Mary, you wouldn't ask that.
That doesn't answer my question though ...
I did say that some was and some wasn't. I certainly know that one lot was 'cos my kids play with their kids and I know how the household is run.

I wonder, if they're hard up, how they can afford to replace their furniture ....
We've never replaced furniture in 47 years and while we're officially poor we don't feel hard up.
Mary

-- Skipweasel Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

Mary Fisher wrote:

"Phil Bradshaw" wrote in message
Take 10 busted metric pallets, dismantle same, build (a) 1 compost bin of ~1 cu metre capacity to suit available space, (b) temporary storage shelving to tidy up the workshop and (c) have enough boards left to make a cold frame using glass from a scrap double-glazed door.
:-)
Oh come on! Who would bother doing all that?
:-)
We built an extension for the bee shed using pallet boards, about twenty years ago. It was painted on the outside with creosote and it's needed no treatment since.
Mary The shed is strong in this 'un

The message from "Mary Fisher" contains these words:

I did say that some was and some wasn't. I certainly know that one lot was 'cos my kids play with their kids and I know how the household is run.
I wonder, if they're hard up, how they can afford to replace their furniture ....

Often it's from a place called Spares and Chairs, a charity which collects furniture and distributes it to people who need it. Your furniture is probably quite well made, but if you've got crappy chipboard rubbish to start with and you've got wild kids who break it...
-- Skipweasel Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

"Guy King" wrote in message

The message <456ec0ff$0$758$4c56ba96@master.news.zetnet.net from "Mary Fisher" contains these words:
I did say that some was and some wasn't. I certainly know that one lot was 'cos my kids play with their kids and I know how the household is run.
I wonder, if they're hard up, how they can afford to replace their furniture ....
Often it's from a place called Spares and Chairs, a charity which collects furniture and distributes it to people who need it. Your furniture is probably quite well made, but if you've got crappy chipboard rubbish to start with and you've got wild kids who break it...

Chipboard hadn't been invented when our furniture was thrown out :-)
Any which couldn't stand up to the children went on the bonfire or converted to something else. Except the piano ...
Mary

-- Skipweasel Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

Huge wrote:

On 2006-11-28, Brian wrote:
So it's the infamous Hugh Davies!!
'Fraid so. "Infamous", eh? Gulp.
I used to hang out on uk.transport about 10 years ago, and Huge was busy back then baiting the environmentalists.
They haven't changed much. You only have to see David Hansen's posts here to see that. If they'd only get some education and stop treating environmentalism like some kind of bloody religion.

The daft thing is, I actually class myself as an environmentalist - certainly a supporter of rail improvements etc. On the other hand, I agree with you that rail at the mo in this country is shite. I guess I am a reluctant car user.

I stopped participating some time ago, due to the repetitive nature of the forum,
Nothing's changed. Especially Doug Bollen.

mmm, I noticed that, and was glad I stopped reading it some time ago.

but recently have seen a few cross posts on uk.railway. These got me wondering whether Huge was still around - great to see that you are!
Why, thank you.
Have you mellowed at all over the last 10 years? I sure hope not ...
Mellowed? Hell, I've got worse.

Chuckle.

Regards,
H.

-- "Other people are not your property." [email me at huge [at] huge [dot] org [dot] uk]

On 2006-11-30 08:04:12 +0000, David Hansen said:

If some people really think this is too difficult or takes too long then perhaps they should ask their local waste advisor to give them some advice.

Actually no, it's not that this is difficult in the final analysis but that it is unnecessarily overcomplicated and inconvenient for dubious value.
I have no idea who a "waste advisor" is. Is it yet another person paid for from council tax with pie in the sky ideas about the rality of what people require?
I would be very pleased to have a conversation with such a person, but it would be along a few simple lines:
1) How is he going to offer me a choice of disposal services?
2) How is he going to reduce the cost?
3) How is he going to deliver the above with less use of time on my part?
If he has good answers for all of the above, then there is a basis for discussion. If he doesn't, then I will want to know who his boss is and who the budget holder is for his position because he isn't doing his job properly and should be removed from the payroll..

On Thu, 30 Nov 2006 22:18:27 +0000 someone who may be Andy Hall wrote this:-

I have no idea who a "waste advisor" is.

An interesting admission.

1) How is he going to offer me a choice of disposal services?

He or she would no doubt point out the choice of recycling services available.

2) How is he going to reduce the cost?

That is most unlikely, for the reasons given earlier about changing attitudes in society.

3) How is he going to deliver the above with less use of time on my part?

To my pointing out that it is not too difficult or takes too long you accepted that it isn't difficult. Hopefully you will soon come to the realisation that it doesn't take too long either. It is simply a matter of organisation.
Those who are too stubborn to get the hang of new ideas do seem to find it rather more difficult than the general public. The lack of runaway success by "alternative" collection services does seem to show that most of the public are coping.
I can remember the whining when "real" steel litter bins were replaced by black plastic bags. I can also remember the whining when black plastic bags were replaced by wheelie bins. However, most of the public soon got the hang of both changes.
-- David Hansen, Edinburgh I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

"David Hansen" wrote in message

I can remember the whining when "real" steel litter bins were replaced by black plastic bags. I can also remember the whining when black plastic bags were replaced by wheelie bins. However, most of the public soon got the hang of both changes.

I was thinking about that. When I was a child we had metal dustbins, the lids rarely closed properly because the metal became distorted. My mother said it was much better than before, when rubbish was simply thrown in the midden and shovelled onto a horse-drawn cart every now and then.
All our coal ash (and everyone else's) went into the bins along with other rubbish.
The bins were picked up and carried on the back of the binman to an open cart, he tipped the contents into the cart, dust and ash flying everywhere. It was a rotten job. Those carts DID smell and the bins were very noisy.
Later we had a sort of rubber bin but we weren't allowed to put ashes into it if they were still hot. Some folk did and burned holes in the bins. We never did, it's now used as a water butt.
The next progressive step was to provide a blag poly bag to line the bin so that sticky rubbish wasn't left to build up at the bottom of the bin. This meant that unless the bag burst it was a much more pleasant job for the binmen.
The current wheelie bins are well designed and rodent proof. They are easy to move by householders, binmen no longer have to risk injury lifting them. The trucks are excellent, designed for that job only, all waste is well contained and doesn't fly away. The binmen can empty far more bins than ever before because of the mechanisation. Safety is the prime consideration for the gang. Our gang is friendly and courteous as well as efficient. I say 'gang' because since the wheelie bin sytem began, years ago, there have been very few changes in personnel. That says a lot about the system.
Who'd want to go back to any of the previous methods?
Not me, guv. If taxing my brain and spending my time, working out what's paper and what isn't, for the sake of the improvements I've seen in over sixty years I'll happily do it for whatever time I have left. If the system is improved more, which I expect will happen, I'll go along with that too.
If sorting my rubbish is the hardest task I ever have to do I reckon I'm a very fortunate woman.
Oh - Spouse is capable of sorting too but he doesn't know the plastic codes, he has to look at the note I put on the door to get it right. He can do things I can't though :-)
There are always whiners, it's a pity they've nothing better to do.
Mary

On 2006-12-01 08:12:24 +0000, David Hansen said:

On Thu, 30 Nov 2006 22:18:27 +0000 someone who may be Andy Hall andyh@hall.nospam> wrote this:-
I have no idea who a "waste advisor" is.
An interesting admission.
1) How is he going to offer me a choice of disposal services?
He or she would no doubt point out the choice of recycling services available.
2) How is he going to reduce the cost?
That is most unlikely, for the reasons given earlier about changing attitudes in society.
3) How is he going to deliver the above with less use of time on my part?
To my pointing out that it is not too difficult or takes too long you accepted that it isn't difficult. Hopefully you will soon come to the realisation that it doesn't take too long either. It is simply a matter of organisation.

No it isn't, it's a matter of customer choice.

Those who are too stubborn to get the hang of new ideas do seem to find it rather more difficult than the general public.

It is not a matter of getting the hang of new ideas either.

The lack of runaway success by "alternative" collection services does seem to show that most of the public are coping.

Since the market is closed to them because of the local authority monopoly, there are no alternatives.

In message , Andy Hall writes

On 2006-12-01 08:12:24 +0000, David Hansen SENDdavidNOhSPAM@spidacom.co.uk> said:
To my pointing out that it is not too difficult or takes too long you accepted that it isn't difficult. Hopefully you will soon come to the realisation that it doesn't take too long either. It is simply a matter of organisation.
No it isn't, it's a matter of customer choice.

Personal choice even.

Those who are too stubborn to get the hang of new ideas do seem to find it rather more difficult than the general public.
It is not a matter of getting the hang of new ideas either.

Well, you certainly seem to be choosing not to.

The lack of runaway success by "alternative" collection services does seem to show that most of the public are coping.
Since the market is closed to them because of the local authority monopoly, there are no alternatives.

Oh there there ! Can't you find an important problem to worry about ?
Even if you believed that customer choice was the most important issue in the world, you could still do us all a favour by sorting your waste and fighting this battle in other ways.
Cheers, J/. -- John Beardmore

In message , Mary Fisher writes

"John Beardmore" wrote in message
This has a direct negative environmental impact, as those hours could be spent doing something genuinely useful, some of which things would inlude the things you want to see happen, such as installation of insulation, solar hw,
Andy seems to have changed his opinion about solar hw ...

:)
Well - we put another one in last week. 2.75sqm flat plate for �2,406. Granted it's not at all easy to make money at those prices, but it worked and was described as "well insulated" by the agency that commissioned it.
Cheers, J/. -- John Beardmore

In message , Mary Fisher writes

I wonder, if they're hard up, how they can afford to replace their furniture

DHSS ? Local charities ?

We've never replaced furniture in 47 years and while we're officially poor we don't feel hard up.

:) I don't even want to think about it !
Cheers, J/. -- John Beardmore