Honda says to mass-produce solar cells from 2007

Mon Dec 19,12:01 AM ET TOKYO (Reuters) - Honda Motor Co. said on Monday it plans to start mass-producing solar cells in 2007, eyeing growing demand for environmentally friendly energy sources.
Japan's third-biggest automaker said in a statement it would build a new factory for solar cells on the site of a car plant in Kumamoto prefecture, on the southwestern Japanese island of Kyushu. The company aims to generate annual sales of 5 billion to 8 billion yen ($40 million to $70 million) from solar cells once the factory's output reaches full annual capacity of 27.5 megawatts, enough to power about 8,000 households. Honda will be competing with major solar cell manufacturers such as Kyocera Corp. <6971, Sharp Corp. and Mitsubishi Electric Corp. A Honda spokeswoman did not say when the factory would hit full capacity and declined to disclose the size of the investment, which the Nihon Keizai business daily estimated would be just short of 10 billion yen. Honda said its solar cells would be composed of non-silicon compound materials, consuming half as much energy and generating 50 percent less carbon dioxide during production when compared with conventional solar cells made from silicon. The company aims to sell the solar cells for both residential and industrial use. It will initially target the Japanese market. Prior to mass production, Honda plans to manufacture and sell solar cells in a limited area in Japan from late 2006. Shares of Honda were up 1.7 percent at 6,680 yen in late morning trade, compared with a 0.30 percent rise in the benchmark Nikkei share average ($1=115.62 Yen) http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051219/bs_nm/autos_japan_honda_dc

No wonder the Japanese are kicking our asses in the automotive sector...they're not afraid of the future...And they're capable of flexing to embrace the future instead of remaining mired down in the ways of the past, a la. GM, Ford, Chrysler...

Don't be so quick to praise Honda - they are simply responding to the Japanese government's recent goal to put a solar panel on every Japanese rooftop. The Japanese government is subsidizing a major portion of the upgrade costs.
Why? Well, who do you think the Kyoto Protocol was named for, Uzbeckistan? Japan has realized that you've got to practice what you preach, or nobody's going to listen.
/Roy

Roy. Just Roy. wrote:

Don't be so quick to praise Honda - they are simply responding to the Japanese government's recent goal to put a solar panel on every Japanese rooftop. The Japanese government is subsidizing a major portion of the upgrade costs.
Why? Well, who do you think the Kyoto Protocol was named for, Uzbeckistan? Japan has realized that you've got to practice what you preach, or nobody's going to listen.

The truth of Pace's observation is only enhanced by your comments...not lessened.

Yup. And why do you suppose Japan would like to put a panel on every rooftop? Because they don't have hardly any natural energy resources. They import everything, even the nuclear reactor fuel. (I think they may use some geothermal)
And here we in the US sit, importing huge amounts of energy. What does our government support? SUVs.
I also suspect that the Japanese are building this now, when it needs support, because it takes a few years at least to get these plants up and running. When the energy crunch starts to really, really kick in, they will be ready. We won't.
Heck, we still leave our cars idling, and won't insulate our homes. arrggghhhhh.
Please note: I'm not picking on any particular political party. Neither has done anything regarding energy, though one mouths off more than the other.

websurf1@cox.net wrote:

When the energy crunch starts to really, really kick in, they will be ready. We won't.

Lead on Japan

http://h2-pv.tripod.com/PV/solar_maps.html SOLAR MAPS, USA, ANNUAL AVERAGE and MONTHLY AVERAGES
http://h2-pv.tripod.com/ H2-PV The Hydrogen Economy Powered by Solar Photovoltaics H2-PV introduces Photovoltaics by the Acre, Hydrogen by the Tons.
http://h2-pv.us/H2/H2-PV_Breeders.html Essay on H2-PV Breeder Synergies H2-PV Breeders create new photovoltaic material using energy ultimately acquired from Solar Energy.
While the obvious visible source of energy is the Sun and the PV panels, not all of the energy used in the system is electricity from photovoltaics. For example, sunlight is only useful for a few hours each day at peak times of sunlight -- for operations earlier and later, even overnight, stored energy is required. The most obvious supply of stored energy is given in the process name "H2" of H2-PV. ...

In article , "H2-PV NOW" writes:

http://h2-pv.tripod.com/PV/solar_maps.html SOLAR MAPS, USA, ANNUAL AVERAGE and MONTHLY AVERAGES
http://h2-pv.tripod.com/ H2-PV The Hydrogen Economy Powered by Solar Photovoltaics H2-PV introduces Photovoltaics by the Acre, Hydrogen by the Tons.
http://h2-pv.us/H2/H2-PV_Breeders.html Essay on H2-PV Breeder Synergies H2-PV Breeders create new photovoltaic material using energy ultimately acquired from Solar Energy.
While the obvious visible source of energy is the Sun and the PV panels, not all of the energy used in the system is electricity from photovoltaics. For example, sunlight is only useful for a few hours each day at peak times of sunlight -- for operations earlier and later, even overnight, stored energy is required. The most obvious supply of stored energy is given in the process name "H2" of H2-PV. ...

There are MANY other options for storing energy other than making hydrogen.
And unless and until PV becomes a sizable portion of the mix it really doesn't matter because peak electrical loads tend to be closely aligned with peak solar flux.
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Nanook wrote:

In article , "H2-PV NOW" writes:
http://h2-pv.tripod.com/PV/solar_maps.html SOLAR MAPS, USA, ANNUAL AVERAGE and MONTHLY AVERAGES
http://h2-pv.tripod.com/ H2-PV The Hydrogen Economy Powered by Solar Photovoltaics H2-PV introduces Photovoltaics by the Acre, Hydrogen by the Tons.
http://h2-pv.us/H2/H2-PV_Breeders.html Essay on H2-PV Breeder Synergies H2-PV Breeders create new photovoltaic material using energy ultimately acquired from Solar Energy.
While the obvious visible source of energy is the Sun and the PV panels, not all of the energy used in the system is electricity from photovoltaics. For example, sunlight is only useful for a few hours each day at peak times of sunlight -- for operations earlier and later, even overnight, stored energy is required. The most obvious supply of stored energy is given in the process name "H2" of H2-PV. ...
There are MANY other options for storing energy other than making hydrogen.

What a stupid irrelevent comment to make!!! There could be 100 Billion Million Trillion alternatives, and SO WHAT?
There is one and only one element which composes one ninth of the weight of the waters of the oceans covering 70 of the planet. (And 8/9ths Oxygen too.) Burn the Hydrogen and you get water again, start all over tomorrow when a new day's sunshine dawn. It is inexhaustable and environmentally clean.
The fact is you were too embarrased by the comparison with other fuels and energy storage systems to describe even one of these "so-called many alternatives".
You are a chronic liar about Hydrogen and Solar Photovoltaics, and a snake oil salesman for the dirty pollution industries. There are no clean alternatives coming out of your diarhia of the keyboard, just filth and mass-murder alternatives.

And unless and until PV becomes a sizable portion of the mix it really doesn't matter because peak electrical loads tend to be closely aligned with peak solar flux.

Again stupid comment. YOUR demand for electricity at peak hours for a damned dime a kilowatt cannot compete with others willingness to pay for electrolysis products at 10 to 20 times the value of kilowatts. That's right now, bulk wholesale discounted prices -- in the future those prices will be way down, but in that same future there will be neither electrical grids nor corner gasoline stations. That means that your cars don't move and you lights don't come on when you flip the switch unless you are plugged into the H2-PV Pollutionless Solution.
The REST of US are not going to screw ourselves because YOU choose to be a mass-murderer blood-thirsty fiend with filthy pig habits spewing toxics wastes with everything you do.
H2-PV. Get used to it or GET OFF MY WORLD.

Hojeez. Did someone forget their meds? Sounds like Rod Speed's cousin.
FWIW, I stored the energy in water, by heating it up. Works well. Here in Phoenix, peak sun is also peak need for air conditioning. I don't need storage, I need affordable panels.
Storage is good. I LIKE H2. But for most of us, it remains a couple steps away from current needs. Though that might be unfortunate, it is true.

"Pace Sanders" wrote in message

No wonder the Japanese are kicking our asses in the automotive sector...they're not afraid of the future...And they're capable of flexing to embrace the future instead of remaining mired down in the ways of the past, a la. GM, Ford, Chrysler...

The popularity of "big three bashing" is getting a little stale.
How about injecting a little fact into the discussion?
While you are praising Toyota and Honda's hybrid car sales, you find that: Toyota sold 194,000 hybrid vehicles world wide in 2005 Daimler sold 132,000 hybrid vehicles world wide in 2005 It's difficult to find Honda's hybrid sales for 2005, but it's a "blip", as they've only ever sold 100,000 units, world-wide, cumulatively.....only a "bit" player. Daimler sold more smart cars this year alone, than the total number of hybrid vehicles Honda has *ever* sold.
If you actually followed the auto industry, you'd find that DaimlerChrysler has brought out more new models in the past two years than anyone else, and is launching more new vehicles in the next couple of years than anyone else. You'd find that DaimlerChrysler increased their market share by 4% last year, whereas Honda's stagnated. You'd also find that DaimlerChrysler's total revenues for the last four quarters were higher than anyone else's ($194.1 billion US). Toyota at $179.4 billion has surpassed Ford at $175.5 billion, but GM at $193 billion, was second only to DaimlerChrysler, in terms of revenue. Honda had revenues of $83.7 billion.
Oh, and for people not wanting to give up SUV's?
Nov 2005 October to October change in full size SUV sales GM -52.1% Ford -54.9% Chrysler -32.5% Toyota -42.6% Nissan -22.8% Isuzu -22.4%
Perception, and reality, are quite often at odds.
K. Jones

In article , "H2-PV NOW" writes:

What a stupid irrelevent comment to make!!! There could be 100 Billion Million Trillion alternatives, and SO WHAT?

Given that there are so MANY alternatives, why the hell would you choose the least efficient of all of them? Do you have some financial interest in hydrogen systems or does your brain simply have a short circuit?
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Nanook wrote:

In article , "H2-PV NOW" writes: What a stupid irrelevent comment to make!!! There could be 100 Billion Million Trillion alternatives, and SO WHAT?
Given that there are so MANY alternatives, why the hell would you choose the least efficient of all of them? Do you have some financial interest in hydrogen systems or does your brain simply have a short circuit?

What's inefficient about Hydrogen Electrolysis from Photovoltaics? Water dissociates H2O -> H2 + O2 at 1.25 DC volts or higher. Max efficiency is typically around 1.7 DC volts to 2.2 DC volts. Silicon PV generates 1.74 DC volts typically. It's a marrage made in heavan.
Without even trying to tweak the system for maximum efficiency one can get 75% or better H2O to H2 + O2. That still leaves 25% exergy unaccounted for, and the possibility to tweak the system for greater. Industrial-scale electrolysis units get 85% and even 90% efficiency out of their systems, but they are not know-nothing amatures like you are. But even a dunce like you can get 75% efficiency, which is respectable.
There are NO ALTERATIVES sometimes, if the "need" is motor fuel and the "have" is PV or wind, or hydro. You ever tried to power your car on wind?
You don't mention alternatives. You falsely claim they exist and are "many". I say you are a bald-faced liar, who talks about nuclear fuel and drilling oil in sensative areas exactly because you have no alternatives in your mind. You badmouth Hydrogen to make you pollution more acceptable, to make you mass-murder more acceptable. I'm telling you THOSE alternatives are NOT ACCEPTABLE. So quit lying about H2-PV, killer.

In article , "H2-PV NOW" writes:

Nanook wrote: In article , "H2-PV NOW" writes: What a stupid irrelevent comment to make!!! There could be 100 Billion Million Trillion alternatives, and SO WHAT?
Given that there are so MANY alternatives, why the hell would you choose the least efficient of all of them? Do you have some financial interest in hydrogen systems or does your brain simply have a short circuit?
What's inefficient about Hydrogen Electrolysis from Photovoltaics? Water dissociates H2O -> H2 + O2 at 1.25 DC volts or higher. Max efficiency is typically around 1.7 DC volts to 2.2 DC volts. Silicon PV generates 1.74 DC volts typically. It's a marrage made in heavan.
Without even trying to tweak the system for maximum efficiency one can get 75% or better H2O to H2 + O2. That still leaves 25% exergy unaccounted for, and the possibility to tweak the system for greater. Industrial-scale electrolysis units get 85% and even 90% efficiency out of their systems, but they are not know-nothing amatures like you are. But even a dunce like you can get 75% efficiency, which is respectable.
There are NO ALTERATIVES sometimes, if the "need" is motor fuel and the "have" is PV or wind, or hydro. You ever tried to power your car on wind?
You don't mention alternatives. You falsely claim they exist and are "many". I say you are a bald-faced liar, who talks about nuclear fuel and drilling oil in sensative areas exactly because you have no alternatives in your mind. You badmouth Hydrogen to make you pollution more acceptable, to make you mass-murder more acceptable. I'm telling you THOSE alternatives are NOT ACCEPTABLE. So quit lying about H2-PV, killer.

I'd love to see references to any credible sources showing production units getting that type of efficiency.
By the way, are you capable of a debate without tossing insults?
Do you believe verbosity makes you right?
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In article , "H2-PV NOW" writes:

alternatives in your mind. You badmouth Hydrogen to make you pollution more acceptable, to make you mass-murder more acceptable. I'm telling

And just for the record, I don't "bad mouth" hydrogen to make pollution and mass murder more acceptable, on the contrary, I know that ONLY economic alternatives are going to gain acceptance and put an end to the pollution and mass murder related to the consumption of fossile fuels.
Using alternatives uneconomically means they can displace fewer fossile fuels thus sustaining the pollution and mass murder you pretend to be opposed to.
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