Hurricane... Inverter in car, or generator on balcony

On Sat, 27 May 2006 16:45:20 -0700, "Ulysses" wrote:

If you can make an eu2000 so it's not visible without interfering with the intake or exhaust you can pretty much drown out the noise with a small electric fan, be it 12 VDC or AC. They are very quiet except when running at near full load and then they are still not very noticeable. I don't really see why safety would be a serious issue as long as the exhaust is not allowed to build up. Perhaps something that looks like a patio table that will disguise the genny and reduce the noise.

My ex and I used to do craft shows with her stained glass. We needed just a little bit of power to run the bulbs in her stained glass lamps and a fan or two. Many shows charge exorbitant fees for power - $50 or more per day. Most of these same promoters ban generators to force exhibitors to buy the scalped power.
Being a cheap-skate and not liking getting rammed, I declined the scalped power. The demand was too much for the old trolling battery and inverter trick so I settled for subterfuge.
Honda's first inverter generator that had any market share was the EX350. A small 2-stroke-based unit that only made 350 watts but did so extremely quietly. Quiet enough that I could hide the generator right there in the booth without anyone noticing.
My solution was to simply upend a cardboard box over the running generator. I punched a few holes in the box and mounted a muffin fan on one side to force in cooling air and to make enough noise to drown out the slight hum of the engine. With no-smoke oil, there was no visible exhaust emission and essentially no odor. No one ever caught on.
I did keep a marine battery box sitting at the back of the booth as a diversion for particularly anal promoters. I used it as a tool box. I stuffed an extension cord up one of the openings to make it look like power was coming from the battery.
The EX is/was actually a little quieter than the EUs but that is balanced by the EUs having no visible exhaust emission and essentially no odor once warmed up.

Neon John mentioned a Chinese clone generator and there are also inverter generators made by Kipor but first we need a volunteer to buy one and run it through the wringer and post a review.

That's the name of the Chicom EU clone that I could not recall. There are plenty of reviews on the net of those generators and all that I've read are positive. Besides, they're so cheap that when one does wear out, just toss it and get a new one. Yeah, that does offend my Southern frugality (similar to yankee frugality only better) but hey, this is the 21st century and most everything is throw-away.
John --- John De Armond See my website for my current email address http://www.johngsbbq.com Cleveland, Occupied TN Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain

On Sat, 27 May 2006 19:37:08 -0700, "Ulysses" wrote:

"(PeteCresswell)" wrote in message Per Ulysses: I don't really see why safety would be a serious issue as long as the exhaust is not allowed to build up.
I'm no expert... but I can envision the fumes drifting into a neighbor's open patio door - depending on the wind.
I use an eu2000 next to a travel trailer and never have had any problems with exhaust getting inside. It usually sits out in front about 6 feet from the door. It doesn't seem to matter which way the wind is blowing. Certainly, under certain circumstances, it could be a problem but on a second-floor balcony I'd expect the exhaust to disperse quickly.

I suppose that under dead-calm conditions, a bitchy neighbor might get a whiff of exhaust. The solution to that is simple - set the generator on the balcony with the exhaust pointing out. Put a box over the thing if you have to hide it. Set a fan beside it to blow the exhaust away. Voila - dead-calm becomes an impossibility and bitchy neighbors can find something else to bitch about.
John --- John De Armond See my website for my current email address http://www.johngsbbq.com Cleveland, Occupied TN Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain

"Harry Chickpea" wrote in message

(I wouldn't wait much more than five minutes in this situation, if that. You are "jump starting" the deep discharge battery, and if the voltage was particularly low, you could drop the car battery surface charge below where it would easily start the car.)

Possible if the car already has a very weak battery, but frankly I doubt it. In the case of the battery sitting on the ground next to the car conected with a normal set of jumper cables, the amount of energy available to start the car before and after the two batteries equalize is almost the same. Even though the voltage available to the starter will be slightly less, the starter will see a lower supply impedance (because of the two batteries in parallel) and will get plenty of current to spin the starter for a few seconds. In the case of the long "skinny" jumper cable, as you indicate below, the resistance of the charging cable will limit energy transfer and slow the charge rate. The charge rate will trail off quickly as the voltage raises on the deep cycle battery.
It would be much more fuel efficient to let the batteries equalize before starting the car, and then you will get a maximum charge rate from the alternator.

I agree that a long cable sort-of works, enough for a day or two, but I wouldn't want to use it for much more than that, for fear of undercharging the battery. This isn't an absolute, but part of the trade-offs of battery convenience, lifespan, and use. The issue I see is that long cables don't allow enough voltage for an equalizing charge.

Perhaps we are using different assumptions, but (within reason) the resistance of the charging cable has no effect on the final voltage that the charged battery sees, it just makes the whole charge cycle much slower. Voltage (E) equals the product of Current (I) and Resistance (R). So you can figure the voltage drop in the charging cable by the formula E = I * R. You can see that as the charge tapers towards zero, the voltage drop approaches zero. (The underlying assumption here is that the user is smart enough to turn off all loads during the charge cycle, otherwise all bets are off.)
By the way, a thirty foot charging cable (actually a 60-foot round trip) of #10 wire would have .0708 ohm, plus the contact resistance (say .1 ohm). With ten amps, that cable will drop a whopping 1.7 volts, but after the charge drops to one amp, it would only be .17 volts, at 100 mills it would be .017 volts and so on.
Regards Vaughn

In "Vaughn Simon" writes:
[ full snip ]
If you're (plural) even thinking of using a car and its alternator to provide the 12VDC to fed an inverter (or other batteries), I strongly urge you to spend the $25 or so dollars and get a separate "jump start" battery. They're available in auto supply stores (and Sears,e tc.). Nicely packaged in a plastic case with handles and jumper cables, etc.
The only thing you have to watch out for is that they self discharge, so you have to plug them in every month or so (either to a wall outlet or via a 12 V patch cord).
Your car _will_ stall out, and your main car battery is guaranted to drop below "starting" voltage, in the middle of the night when you need it for your inverter, etc.
(These also are superb for their primary use, which is, of course, starting your car after you left the lights on when parking. It also makes it mcuh, much, simpler, to give a jump start to your friend down the road...)
-- _____________________________________________________ Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key dannyb@panix.com [to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

Per danny burstein:

The only thing you have to watch out for is that they self discharge,

One other consideration: choose a place to store it with the thought that you don't want it hitting you or yours in the back of the neck in a minor accident... -- PeteCresswell

"Neon John" wrote in message

On Sat, 27 May 2006 16:45:20 -0700, "Ulysses" therealulysses@yahoo.com> wrote:
Neon John mentioned a Chinese clone generator and there are also inverter generators made by Kipor but first we need a volunteer to buy one and run it through the wringer and post a review.
That's the name of the Chicom EU clone that I could not recall. There are plenty of reviews on the net of those generators and all that I've read are positive. Besides, they're so cheap that when one does wear out, just toss it and get a new one. Yeah, that does offend my Southern frugality (similar to yankee frugality only better) but hey, this is the 21st century and most everything is throw-away.
John

I've not searched for reviews recently on the Sinemaster/Kipors so maybe I'll do it again.
BTW it turns out that even the Honda eu2000 can be considered throwaway now. When my first one wore out I discovered that there is no replacement engine or short block available and to have someone repair it would cost about $800 with a new one costing $900. I plan to tear it down in the near future and see just what went wrong. I suspect a broken piston ring because the oil level actually increased so gasoline must be getting in there. Maybe all it needs is to be bored out, some new rings, a valve job, and a new timing belt.