California Solar "Savings" and Time-of-Use Metering

I'm looking at getting PV for my house, and got some estimates that show how much money I'll save on my electric bill.
Well, I worked up my own spreadsheet, and while plugging in various alternatives, I noticed something funny. Installing zero watts of solar still saves me over 25%.
This savings comes from PG&E's time of use metering. Of course, all the projections credit PV for them instead.
Am I missing something here? Have others done the same projection? (My annual consumption is around 7000 KWh, so the tiered rates raise my bill. Time of use doesn't use the tiers.)
- Walt Bilofsky

sounds like a broken spreadsheet...
i installed a system in california in july. i saw immediate savings. the payback is real, and is from your paying a fixed price NOW for future electric that will go up typically 5% a year for the next many years. (at least).
now - expect the electric company to *screw up* the paperwork. once i filed the paperwork they went to estimated billings. for two months they did "estimates". this is while i had the solar spinning the meter backward. this enabled them to gather excess funds for two months. now i have a cash credit balance that will get used up over several months...
for me the choice was to establish a system that will be paid off before i retire, enabling me to have discount energy when i switch to the more fixed income of retirement.
~ also just plain piece of mind that i can turn a damb light or AC on without fuss!
see ya
steve

"steve" wrote:

sounds like a broken spreadsheet...
Well, I don't think so, but that's what I'm trying to find out.

No question, if I put in PV and time of use, it will save money. That's why I'm looking into it.
But I would sure like to hear from someone who has evaluated time of use metering as a separate factor.

i never looked into time of use - just didn't think of it. assuming for regular consumers they let you, i suppose it can save some. you'll spin your meter back during prime time - *expensive* electric, and consume it from the grid during generally cheaper off hours.
they switched me to a digital meter, but i don't think it's a "time of use" type. they never mentioned it & the installer said it's the kind that radios in the readings.
see ya
steve

yes time of use can save MONEY all by itself if your heavy usage is off peak.
time of use does not save ENERGY but can save money.
time of usage + solar MAY save you even more money, you have to figure out the payback
Mark

Mark wrote: ....

time of usage + solar MAY save you even more money, you have to figure out the payback

Alas, here in LADWP land they do not allow you to do both time of usage and net billing at the same time.
Anthony

Well, you were right - the spreadsheet was broke. Or rather my model was - I wasn't taking the tiered structure into account. (My vendor's spreadsheet didn't use tiers so I assumed there weren't any.)
It looks like I would still save something, but about 10%, not 25%.

from a payback point of use some consideration for the increase of home value shpuld also be considered for the PV installation.
see ya
steve

Walt Bilofsky wrote:

"steve" wrote:
sounds like a broken spreadsheet...
Well, I don't think so, but that's what I'm trying to find out.
No question, if I put in PV and time of use, it will save money. That's why I'm looking into it.
But I would sure like to hear from someone who has evaluated time of use metering as a separate factor.

You might check whether the California Energy Commission has done any such studies. They have looked into a variety of such issues, thanks to the combination of California's power problems and various PV-related bills that have been considered by the legislature over the years. Unfortunately, the studies (by CEC as well as others) that I am most familiar with look at the impact of PV on electricity markets at a regional level, rather than an individual user level.