Using wind power to recharge batteries, laptop, phones etc .

Hi all,
I live on an exposed hill in north Essex, UK, and the wind is forever howling round my house - I'd like to put it to some use. My idea was to put a small turbine (maybe a boat/caravan one, about 1 meter diameter) on the end of the house, and run the power into my office. From here, it would plug into an invertor, and into the invertor I would plug my 4-way adaptor that has all my rechargers on - the phone charger, the AA battery charger, the toothbrush etc.
Given that most of my rechargeable equipment is always plugged into its charger and only taken off to be used, I hoped that even if the turbine didn't provide enough current, everything would charge *eventually* (if something takes 8 hours instead of 1, I'll live!).
However, I know nothing about electricity, so I don't know if this will work. If a rechargeable battery (like the one in a phone) doesn't get the current it needs, will it just charge slower? Or do I risk damaging it? If there's no load (ie. everything is charged), will this pose a problem? (I read somwhere that turbines always need some load).
Many thanks in advance for your help,
Tony.

On 4 Apr 2006 01:53:53 -0700, tony@mixodia.com wrote:

Hi all,
I live on an exposed hill in north Essex, UK, and the wind is forever howling round my house - I'd like to put it to some use. My idea was to put a small turbine (maybe a boat/caravan one, about 1 meter diameter) on the end of the house, and run the power into my office. From here, it would plug into an invertor, and into the invertor I would plug my 4-way adaptor that has all my rechargers on - the phone charger, the AA battery charger, the toothbrush etc.
Given that most of my rechargeable equipment is always plugged into its charger and only taken off to be used, I hoped that even if the turbine didn't provide enough current, everything would charge *eventually* (if something takes 8 hours instead of 1, I'll live!).
However, I know nothing about electricity, so I don't know if this will work. If a rechargeable battery (like the one in a phone) doesn't get the current it needs, will it just charge slower? Or do I risk damaging it? If there's no load (ie. everything is charged), will this pose a problem? (I read somwhere that turbines always need some load).
Many thanks in advance for your help,
Tony.
Hi Tony

You probably need to do a bit more reading (something like Steve Spence's site) before you try it. In brief: 1) Wind generators constantly vary in their voltage output unless they are being fed into a battery (or unless you have a substantial "shunt" regulator - but even that won't stop the undervoltage)
2) Inverters need a battery to run properly (unless they are grid-tied)
3) The cost of a small deep cycle battery will be minimal compared with the cost of the turbine I should think.
4) adding a battery (even a car battery if you want to "try before you buy" - but not usually recommended) would mean you also have some charging when the wind is NOT blowing.
5) I think you would need some sort of "dump-load" regulator, unless your wind turbine was very small and your battery large.
Just some thoughts to consider.
Eric Sears

tony@mixodia.com wrote:

Hi all,
I live on an exposed hill in north Essex, UK, and the wind is forever howling round my house - I'd like to put it to some use. My idea was to put a small turbine (maybe a boat/caravan one, about 1 meter diameter) on the end of the house, and run the power into my office. From here, it would plug into an invertor, and into the invertor I would plug my 4-way adaptor that has all my rechargers on - the phone charger, the AA battery charger, the toothbrush etc.
Given that most of my rechargeable equipment is always plugged into its charger and only taken off to be used, I hoped that even if the turbine didn't provide enough current, everything would charge *eventually* (if something takes 8 hours instead of 1, I'll live!).
However, I know nothing about electricity, so I don't know if this will work. If a rechargeable battery (like the one in a phone) doesn't get the current it needs, will it just charge slower? Or do I risk damaging it? If there's no load (ie. everything is charged), will this pose a problem? (I read somwhere that turbines always need some load).
Many thanks in advance for your help,
Tony.

Batteries can be charged quite happily with below rated or intermittent current. The main problem here is your loads are probably well below the turbine's output, plus of course the batteries will get charged, so most of your wind output wont get used.
Theres also the question of what the invertor would think about unregulated varying V_in. It might not survive it. It would not be difficult to make a regulator to sort out overvoltage, and using switched mode chargers would help with undervoltage, but you've still got the fact that most fo the power wont be used.
NT

Tony, Do not listen to meowwwww, instead, follow up this reference <http://www.green-trust.org/wind.htm> to Steve Spence's wind based information. He uses what he proposes.
meow2222@care2.com wrote:

tony@mixodia.com wrote:
Hi all,
I live on an exposed hill in north Essex, UK, and the wind is forever howling round my house - I'd like to put it to some use. My idea was to put a small turbine (maybe a boat/caravan one, about 1 meter diameter) on the end of the house, and run the power into my office. From here, it would plug into an invertor, and into the invertor I would plug my 4-way adaptor that has all my rechargers on - the phone charger, the AA battery charger, the toothbrush etc.
Given that most of my rechargeable equipment is always plugged into its charger and only taken off to be used, I hoped that even if the turbine didn't provide enough current, everything would charge *eventually* (if something takes 8 hours instead of 1, I'll live!).
However, I know nothing about electricity, so I don't know if this will work. If a rechargeable battery (like the one in a phone) doesn't get the current it needs, will it just charge slower? Or do I risk damaging it? If there's no load (ie. everything is charged), will this pose a problem? (I read somwhere that turbines always need some load).
Many thanks in advance for your help,
Tony.

Batteries can be charged quite happily with below rated or intermittent current. The main problem here is your loads are probably well below the turbine's output, plus of course the batteries will get charged, so most of your wind output wont get used.
....................................... Not immediately, but it will be

used from those batteries eventually (where you stored 80% of it)

Theres also the question of what the invertor would think about unregulated varying V_in. It might not survive it.
......................................................I do not understand

meowwwww here, since if you use a mppt charge controller for the batteries, the inverter will only see either the batteries current charger voltage or the battery voltage if the battery is only discharging into the inverter. In either case it will not hurt the inverter, because that is how it is intended to work.

... It would not be difficult to make a regulator to sort out overvoltage, and using switched mode chargers would help with undervoltage,

(that's a mppt style charger)

but you've still got the fact that most of the power wont be used. NT

I disagree, you will lose 20% in the inherent charging and discharging losses of the battery, and most modern inverters will lose 5% in internal heat losses. Therefore, you will have lost a total of about 25% that the wind machine actually produced, but that sure is a long way from "most".
-- Jim Baber Email jim@NOJUNKbaber.org 1350 W Mesa Ave. Fresno CA, 93711 (559) 435-9068 (559) 905-2204 (Verizon IN cellphone (to other Verizon IN accounts)) See 10kW grid tied solar system at "http://www.baber.org/solarpanels.jpg" See solar system production data at "http://www.baber.org/solar_status.htm"

Are you talking about the steve spence who has publicly stated that his wind gen is next to useless. The same wind gen that is below surrounding obstacles and has almost no useful output as a result?
Jim Baber wrote:

Tony, Do not listen to meowwwww, instead, follow up this reference http://www.green-trust.org/wind.htm> to Steve Spence's wind based information. He uses what he proposes. meow2222@care2.com wrote:
tony@mixodia.com wrote:
Hi all,
I live on an exposed hill in north Essex, UK, and the wind is forever howling round my house - I'd like to put it to some use. My idea was to put a small turbine (maybe a boat/caravan one, about 1 meter diameter) on the end of the house, and run the power into my office. From here, it would plug into an invertor, and into the invertor I would plug my 4-way adaptor that has all my rechargers on - the phone charger, the AA battery charger, the toothbrush etc.
Given that most of my rechargeable equipment is always plugged into its charger and only taken off to be used, I hoped that even if the turbine didn't provide enough current, everything would charge *eventually* (if something takes 8 hours instead of 1, I'll live!).
However, I know nothing about electricity, so I don't know if this will work. If a rechargeable battery (like the one in a phone) doesn't get the current it needs, will it just charge slower? Or do I risk damaging it? If there's no load (ie. everything is charged), will this pose a problem? (I read somwhere that turbines always need some load).
Many thanks in advance for your help,
Tony.

Batteries can be charged quite happily with below rated or intermittent current. The main problem here is your loads are probably well below the turbine's output, plus of course the batteries will get charged, so most of your wind output wont get used.
...................................... Not immediately, but it will be used from those batteries eventually (where you stored 80% of it)
Theres also the question of what the invertor would think about unregulated varying V_in. It might not survive it.
.....................................................I do not understand meowwwww here, since if you use a mppt charge controller for the batteries, the inverter will only see either the batteries current charger voltage or the battery voltage if the battery is only discharging into the inverter. In either case it will not hurt the inverter, because that is how it is intended to work.
... It would not be difficult to make a regulator to sort out overvoltage, and using switched mode chargers would help with undervoltage,
(that's a mppt style charger)
but you've still got the fact that most of the power wont be used. NT
I disagree, you will lose 20% in the inherent charging and discharging losses of the battery, and most modern inverters will lose 5% in internal heat losses. Therefore, you will have lost a total of about 25% that the wind machine actually produced, but that sure is a long way from "most".

On Wed, 05 Apr 2006 09:31:35 +1000, George Ghio wrote:

Jim Baber wrote: , follow up this reference http://www.green-trust.org/wind.htm> to Steve Spence's wind based information.
Are you talking about the steve spence who has publicly stated that his wind gen is next to useless. The same wind gen that is below surrounding obstacles and has almost no useful output as a result?

It's the Steve Spence who isn't ashamed to show photos of his own projects, and who puts together web pages with many useful links. Such efforts are much more helpful than say, the bitter ramblings of a nitwit who got caught publicly claiming that an Air X puts out 400W, and who tried to discredit reputable test results in a lame attempt to hide the fact that he's the Rip Van Winkle of wind power.
BTW, where's *your* wind power page Rip? Oh that's right, you're the guy who doesn't have any web pages, yet is nonetheless clumsily seeking to charge others for web page writing. Doctor, heal thyself! Customers are sure to line up for that level of hypocrisy and marketing ghinius. <snorf>
Wayne

No! The steve spence that has an imaginary grid-tie inverter and no grid to connect it to.
"George Ghio" wrote in message

Are you talking about the steve spence who has publicly stated that his wind gen is next to useless. The same wind gen that is below surrounding obstacles and has almost no useful output as a result?
Jim Baber wrote: Tony, Do not listen to meowwwww, instead, follow up this reference http://www.green-trust.org/wind.htm> to Steve Spence's wind based information. He uses what he proposes. meow2222@care2.com wrote:
tony@mixodia.com wrote:
Hi all,
I live on an exposed hill in north Essex, UK, and the wind is forever howling round my house - I'd like to put it to some use. My idea was to put a small turbine (maybe a boat/caravan one, about 1 meter diameter) on the end of the house, and run the power into my office. From here, it would plug into an invertor, and into the invertor I would plug my 4-way adaptor that has all my rechargers on - the phone charger, the AA battery charger, the toothbrush etc.
Given that most of my rechargeable equipment is always plugged into its charger and only taken off to be used, I hoped that even if the turbine didn't provide enough current, everything would charge *eventually* (if something takes 8 hours instead of 1, I'll live!).
However, I know nothing about electricity, so I don't know if this will work. If a rechargeable battery (like the one in a phone) doesn't get the current it needs, will it just charge slower? Or do I risk damaging it? If there's no load (ie. everything is charged), will this pose a problem? (I read somwhere that turbines always need some load).
Many thanks in advance for your help,
Tony.

Batteries can be charged quite happily with below rated or intermittent current. The main problem here is your loads are probably well below the turbine's output, plus of course the batteries will get charged, so most of your wind output wont get used.
...................................... Not immediately, but it will be used from those batteries eventually (where you stored 80% of it)
Theres also the question of what the invertor would think about unregulated varying V_in. It might not survive it.
.....................................................I do not understand meowwwww here, since if you use a mppt charge controller for the batteries, the inverter will only see either the batteries current charger voltage or the battery voltage if the battery is only discharging into the inverter. In either case it will not hurt the inverter, because that is how it is intended to work.
... It would not be difficult to make a regulator to sort out overvoltage, and using switched mode chargers would help with undervoltage,
(that's a mppt style charger)
but you've still got the fact that most of the power wont be used. NT
I disagree, you will lose 20% in the inherent charging and discharging losses of the battery, and most modern inverters will lose 5% in internal heat losses. Therefore, you will have lost a total of about 25% that the wind machine actually produced, but that sure is a long way from "most".

wrote in message

Hi all,
I live on an exposed hill in north Essex, UK, and the wind is forever howling round my house - I'd like to put it to some use. My idea was to put a small turbine (maybe a boat/caravan one, about 1 meter diameter) on the end of the house, and run the power into my office. From here, it would plug into an invertor, and into the invertor I would plug my 4-way adaptor that has all my rechargers on - the phone charger, the AA battery charger, the toothbrush etc.
Given that most of my rechargeable equipment is always plugged into its charger and only taken off to be used, I hoped that even if the turbine didn't provide enough current, everything would charge *eventually* (if something takes 8 hours instead of 1, I'll live!).
However, I know nothing about electricity, so I don't know if this will work. If a rechargeable battery (like the one in a phone) doesn't get the current it needs, will it just charge slower? Or do I risk damaging it? If there's no load (ie. everything is charged), will this pose a problem? (I read somwhere that turbines always need some load).
Many thanks in advance for your help,
Tony.

It would be helpful to know what advantage you are seeking. Please indicate if I have hit on any of them below:
1) Green power (feeling good about doing your bit) 2) Power saving (cutting down the utility bill) 3) Standby power (having power when the grid goes down) 4) Geek power (like me, doing it as a hobby)
If your reason is #2, you won't save much, and never recover the cost of your equipment.

"Solar Flare" wrote in message

No! The steve spence that has an imaginary grid-tie inverter and no grid to connect it to.
"George Ghio" wrote in message Are you talking about the steve spence who has publicly stated that his wind gen is next to useless. The same wind gen that is below surrounding obstacles and has almost no useful output as a result?
Jim Baber wrote: Tony, Do not listen to meowwwww, instead, follow up this reference http://www.green-trust.org/wind.htm> to Steve Spence's wind based information. He uses what he proposes.

I'm still not sure how he can collect charitable donations from his website without being a registered charity.

"JoeSP" wrote in message

"Solar Flare" wrote in message No! The steve spence that has an imaginary grid-tie inverter and no grid to connect it to.
"George Ghio" wrote in message Are you talking about the steve spence who has publicly stated that his wind gen is next to useless. The same wind gen that is below surrounding obstacles and has almost no useful output as a result?
Jim Baber wrote: Tony, Do not listen to meowwwww, instead, follow up this reference http://www.green-trust.org/wind.htm> to Steve Spence's wind based information. He uses what he proposes.
I'm still not sure how he can collect charitable donations from his website without being a registered charity.

Where does it say he collects "charitable donations"? He collects donations to help defray costs, but you do not have to be a charity to do that if the donations are not tax deductible. I would expect that you would know this. It sounds like a few people here are jealous of the work that Steve has done, and just want to drag him through the mud because they are not capable of doing as much. I know that is the case with George, and it sounds like a couple of others in this thread.

"Ron Purvis" wrote in message

"JoeSP" wrote in message
"Solar Flare" wrote in message No! The steve spence that has an imaginary grid-tie inverter and no grid to connect it to.
"George Ghio" wrote in message Are you talking about the steve spence who has publicly stated that his wind gen is next to useless. The same wind gen that is below surrounding obstacles and has almost no useful output as a result?
Jim Baber wrote: Tony, Do not listen to meowwwww, instead, follow up this reference http://www.green-trust.org/wind.htm> to Steve Spence's wind based information. He uses what he proposes.
I'm still not sure how he can collect charitable donations from his website without being a registered charity.
Where does it say he collects "charitable donations"? He collects donations to help defray costs, but you do not have to be a charity to do that if the donations are not tax deductible. I would expect that you would know this. It sounds like a few people here are jealous of the work that Steve has done, and just want to drag him through the mud because they are not capable of doing as much. I know that is the case with George, and it sounds like a couple of others in this thread.

I think you're allowed to provide something in exchange for a donation, but you have to pay taxes on it. I'm not sure what goods or services are exchanged in this case. It sounds like it's supposed to go towards further development of homepower technology. I'd like to know what type of creative accounting is being employed.

On Tue, 4 Apr 2006 21:46:47 -0400, "Solar Flare" wrote:

No! The steve spence that has an imaginary grid-tie inverter and no grid to connect it to.

As I recall, Steve has a stand-alone inverter, and there are pictures of it on his site. So let's see you quote him claiming to have a grid-tie version. I think that's just more of your BS. While we wait for your invisible explanation, I can say that my own grid-tie inverters http://www.citlink.net/~wmbjk/images/main/inverter_half.jpg were an excellent choice for my application even though the grid is a dozen miles away. So what's your point other than to demonstrate yet again that you don't understand the basics? And why are you accusing others of having "imaginary" stuff given that we have yet to see a photo of anything *you* claim to have? Just another thing you have in common with Ghio eh Gymmy Bob?
Wayne

On Wed, 05 Apr 2006 14:17:26 GMT, "JoeSP" wrote:

"Ron Purvis" wrote in message "JoeSP" wrote in message
I'm still not sure how he can collect charitable donations from his website without being a registered charity.
Where does it say he collects "charitable donations"? He collects donations to help defray costs, but you do not have to be a charity to do that if the donations are not tax deductible. I would expect that you would know this. It sounds like a few people here are jealous of the work that Steve has done, and just want to drag him through the mud because they are not capable of doing as much. I know that is the case with George, and it sounds like a couple of others in this thread.
I think you're allowed to provide something in exchange for a donation, but you have to pay taxes on it. I'm not sure what goods or services are exchanged in this case. It sounds like it's supposed to go towards further development of homepower technology. I'd like to know what type of creative accounting is being employed.

And I'd like to know why you feel it's any of your business....
I don't see any mystery here. He puts up comprehensive web pages. That takes time and money. A few readers are happy to help defray his expenses, to the tune of something like $200 a year. And you're concerned that Uncle Sam is missing out on his cut? Let me guess, you were a hall monitor in grade school?
Wayne

"JoeSP" wrote in message

"Ron Purvis" wrote in message "JoeSP" wrote in message
"Solar Flare" wrote in message No! The steve spence that has an imaginary grid-tie inverter and no grid to connect it to.
"George Ghio" wrote in message Are you talking about the steve spence who has publicly stated that his wind gen is next to useless. The same wind gen that is below surrounding obstacles and has almost no useful output as a result?
Jim Baber wrote: Tony, Do not listen to meowwwww, instead, follow up this reference http://www.green-trust.org/wind.htm> to Steve Spence's wind based information. He uses what he proposes.
I'm still not sure how he can collect charitable donations from his website without being a registered charity.
Where does it say he collects "charitable donations"? He collects donations to help defray costs, but you do not have to be a charity to do that if the donations are not tax deductible. I would expect that you would know this. It sounds like a few people here are jealous of the work that Steve has done, and just want to drag him through the mud because they are not capable of doing as much. I know that is the case with George, and it sounds like a couple of others in this thread.
I think you're allowed to provide something in exchange for a donation, but you have to pay taxes on it. I'm not sure what goods or services are exchanged in this case. It sounds like it's supposed to go towards further development of homepower technology. I'd like to know what type of creative accounting is being employed.

There doesn't have to be any exchange of goods or services. It is a gift. Please look it up in the tax code or see www.thestreet.com/funds/investorforum/1230396.html . The recipient does not normally have to pay tax on the gift because it has already been taxed.
As far as the "creative accounting" that sounds like another attempt to smear Steve's name. I am sure he has records of what he receives and what he spends in order to provide the information that he does. Since you seem to be so hostile towards it, I suggest that you don't donate. Regardless, your attempts at smearing someone else in this manner only show your character to be unacceptable and not his.

Who said I was writing Web Pages for any one?
You are a wanker. Get back on your moped, the john's are waiting
wmbjk wrote:

On Wed, 05 Apr 2006 09:31:35 +1000, George Ghio <AKA@nomailhere.com wrote:
Jim Baber wrote:
,
follow up this reference http://www.green-trust.org/wind.htm> to Steve Spence's wind based information.
Are you talking about the steve spence who has publicly stated that his wind gen is next to useless. The same wind gen that is below surrounding obstacles and has almost no useful output as a result?
It's the Steve Spence who isn't ashamed to show photos of his own projects, and who puts together web pages with many useful links. Such efforts are much more helpful than say, the bitter ramblings of a nitwit who got caught publicly claiming that an Air X puts out 400W, and who tried to discredit reputable test results in a lame attempt to hide the fact that he's the Rip Van Winkle of wind power.
BTW, where's *your* wind power page Rip? Oh that's right, you're the guy who doesn't have any web pages, yet is nonetheless clumsily seeking to charge others for web page writing. Doctor, heal thyself! Customers are sure to line up for that level of hypocrisy and marketing ghinius. <snorf
Wayne