New laws, ideas sought for future power outages

New laws, ideas sought for future power outages
By CHRISTINE MARGIOTTA, cmargiotta@poststar.com
Updated: 3/9/2006 10:10:32 PM

The windstorm that knocked out power for thousands on Feb. 17 exposed local response flaws that elected officials will now try to fix with better communication -- and new legislation.
Equipping all local schools with generators, helping residents wire their homes for back-up power and using hospital discharge forms to find people with critical electricity needs were some ideas officials from six northern New York counties discussed Thursday when they met with National Grid management to brainstorm ways of better preparing for future power outages.
Government leaders from Warren, Washington, Saratoga, Essex, Hamilton and Clinton counties also noted a marked breakdown in communication, seemingly caused by a lack of frequent updates from National Grid.
Company managers said Thursday that emergency services crews and government leaders were updated every four to six hours on the windstorm's aftermath and the restoration of power.
But the lack of power shut down television and telephone service for 244,000 statewide, making local shelter information difficult to find. Setting up the shelters proved overwhelming for the Red Cross once word began to spread of the storm's severity.
"We had 10 requests in a half hour for shelters from Malta to Ticonderoga," said Eileen Reardon, Executive Director of the Red Cross' Adirondack/Saratoga chapter.
Washington County officials said much of the Red Cross' and the state Emergency Management Office's resources were depleted by the time they called for help.
"Maybe the old-fashioned phone tree would have worked better," said Sen. Elizabeth Little, R-Queensbury. She and others agreed to encourage people to invest in battery-powered radios to receive quicker outage updates and shelter information in the future.
Little and Assemblywoman Teresa Sayward, R-Willsboro, vowed Thursday to begin drafting a new state law that would free emergency services workers from liability while responding to the aftermath of a widespread disaster, such as the windstorm. Currently, firefighters are protected by law only if an official state of emergency has been declared, they explained.
Harry Gutheil, chairman of the Saratoga County Board of Supervisors, was the first to suggest the new legislation at Thursday's meeting, saying many firefighters feared they'd be held responsible if the generators they dispensed didn't work properly or damaged a home.
"Fire departments are hesitant to power up people with generators because they're concerned about the liability they'd face," said Essex County Emergency Services Coordinator Raymond Thatcher.
Johnsburg Town Supervisor William Thomas suggested encouraging homeowners -- particularly those in rural areas -- to wire their homes for a back-up generator. He said that process only costs about $100.
Thomas also suggested giving each school in the area generators, so the buildings could be used for makeshift shelters if needed.
Little suggested including a clause on hospital discharge forms that gives patients the option of forwarding their addresses to National Grid to quicken the process of finding residents in need of power for life-saving oxygen or kidney dialysis machines. Laura Stebbins of Glens Falls Hospital indicated such a move would not violate patient confidentiality laws.
The drafting process for the proposed legislation will begin Monday, Little said.
http://www.poststar.com/story.asp?storyid=213771

"lkgeo1" wrote:

Johnsburg Town Supervisor William Thomas suggested encouraging homeowners -- particularly those in rural areas -- to wire their homes for a back-up generator. He said that process only costs about $100.

LOL.

Harry Chickpea wrote:

"lkgeo1" wrote:
Johnsburg Town Supervisor William Thomas suggested encouraging homeowners -- particularly those in rural areas -- to wire their homes for a back-up generator. He said that process only costs about $100.
LOL.

Sure, you can _wire_ it for $100. Last time I saw a transfer switch in Home Depot, it was $400. -- derek

On 10 Mar 2006 04:31:51 -0800, "lkgeo1" wrote:

New laws, ideas sought for future power outages
By CHRISTINE MARGIOTTA, cmargiotta@poststar.com
Updated: 3/9/2006 10:10:32 PM

The windstorm that knocked out power for thousands on Feb. 17 exposed local response flaws that elected officials will now try to fix with better communication -- and new legislation.
Equipping all local schools with generators, helping residents wire their homes for back-up power and using hospital discharge forms to find people with critical electricity needs were some ideas officials from six northern New York counties discussed Thursday when they met with National Grid management to brainstorm ways of better preparing for future power outages. Good grief, generators for schools? That'll be nice and cheap. If

there is no power wouldn't the sensible thing to do be to let school out until power returns? I could see a generator to maintain operation for enough heat to keep the pipes from freezing, but that's a lot cheaper than a full standby power solution to non-critical infrastructure such as a school.

"Chris Hill" wrote in message

On 10 Mar 2006 04:31:51 -0800, "lkgeo1" wrote:
New laws, ideas sought for future power outages
By CHRISTINE MARGIOTTA, cmargiotta@poststar.com
Updated: 3/9/2006 10:10:32 PM

The windstorm that knocked out power for thousands on Feb. 17 exposed local response flaws that elected officials will now try to fix with better communication -- and new legislation.
Equipping all local schools with generators, helping residents wire their homes for back-up power and using hospital discharge forms to find people with critical electricity needs were some ideas officials from six northern New York counties discussed Thursday when they met with National Grid management to brainstorm ways of better preparing for future power outages. Good grief, generators for schools? That'll be nice and cheap. If there is no power wouldn't the sensible thing to do be to let school out until power returns?

That would be much easier. The problem is the number of single moms who are working who need the schools running as day care centers. Roe V Wade has caused these excessive cost plans.

I could see a generator to maintain operation for enough heat to keep the pipes from freezing, but that's a lot cheaper than a full standby power solution to non-critical infrastructure such as a school.

"Roe VS. Wade has caused these excessive cost plans."
Wow!, Ho Boy! How did we get to Roe vs. Wade? And how does allowing a woman to choose to carry her pregnancy to term add to the burden of the school system when the power is out?
Sorry, off topic - but I just had to take note.
"Johnny" wrote in message

"Chris Hill" wrote in message On 10 Mar 2006 04:31:51 -0800, "lkgeo1" wrote:
New laws, ideas sought for future power outages
By CHRISTINE MARGIOTTA, cmargiotta@poststar.com
Updated: 3/9/2006 10:10:32 PM

The windstorm that knocked out power for thousands on Feb. 17 exposed local response flaws that elected officials will now try to fix with better communication -- and new legislation.
Equipping all local schools with generators, helping residents wire their homes for back-up power and using hospital discharge forms to find people with critical electricity needs were some ideas officials from six northern New York counties discussed Thursday when they met with National Grid management to brainstorm ways of better preparing for future power outages. Good grief, generators for schools? That'll be nice and cheap. If there is no power wouldn't the sensible thing to do be to let school out until power returns?
That would be much easier. The problem is the number of single moms who are working who need the schools running as day care centers. Roe V Wade has caused these excessive cost plans.
I could see a generator to maintain operation for enough heat to keep the pipes from freezing, but that's a lot cheaper than a full standby power solution to non-critical infrastructure such as a school.

Jim writes:
Johnny wrote:

"Chris Hill" wrote in message
On 10 Mar 2006 04:31:51 -0800, "lkgeo1" wrote:

New laws, ideas sought for future power outages
By CHRISTINE MARGIOTTA, cmargiotta@poststar.com
Updated: 3/9/2006 10:10:32 PM

The windstorm that knocked out power for thousands on Feb. 17 exposed local response flaws that elected officials will now try to fix with better communication -- and new legislation.
Equipping all local schools with generators, helping residents wire their homes for back-up power and using hospital discharge forms to find people with critical electricity needs were some ideas officials
from six northern New York counties discussed Thursday when they met
with National Grid management to brainstorm ways of better preparing for future power outages.
Good grief, generators for schools? That'll be nice and cheap.
Not cheap, but good as far as a local emergency source of backup

electricity for those requiring power for life support equipment, even heat and in some cases A/C. I need A/C and Oxygen myself. To provide reliable backup for my needs has cost over two thousand dollars. It would not have been needed if there were generators and shelter at either of the two schools that are less than 1500 feet from my front door.

If there is no power wouldn't the sensible thing to do be to let school out until power returns?

That would be much easier. The problem is the number of single moms who are working who need the schools running as day care centers. Roe V Wade has caused these excessive cost plans.
That is a spurious claim, without it there would have been more single

moms, Some will try to twist anything to their agenda.

I could see a generator to maintain operation for enough heat to keep the pipes from freezing, but that's a lot cheaper than a full standby power solution to non-critical infrastructure such as a school.
They are available publicly owned sites that would serve well on

emergency situations, and in fact are frequently used for emergency shelters, so why not equip them properly and suitably beforehand.
-- Jim Baber Email jim@NOJUNKbaber.org 1350 W Mesa Ave. Fresno CA, 93711 (559) 435-9068 (559) 905-2204 (Verizon IN cellphone (to other Verizon IN accounts)) See 10kW grid tied solar system at "http://www.baber.org/solarpanels.jpg" See solar system production data at "http://www.baber.org/solar_status.htm"

Usually the schools are used for storm shelters during hurricanes in Florida down here, so having some aux power seems like a good idea.

"Gooey TARBALLS" wrote in message

"Roe VS. Wade has caused these excessive cost plans."
Wow!, Ho Boy! How did we get to Roe vs. Wade?

The Supreme Court enacted it 1973, which was NOT one of their delegated responsibilities in the Constitution.

And how does allowing a woman to choose to carry her pregnancy to term add to the burden of the school system when the power is out?

You didn't read the remainder of my post?
> Sorry, off topic - but I just had to take note.

I have seen transfer switches for either about $89 or $169 (doh!) at Home Depot (Canuck)
The main breaker on these units is not the transfer component. Two larger distribution breakers are mechanically interlocked with a cheap stamped out sheetmetal toggle that blocks one breaker or the other. I have to wonder if they are even legal in Canada as you can remove the toggle easily.
"Derek Broughton" wrote in message

Harry Chickpea wrote:
"lkgeo1" wrote:
Johnsburg Town Supervisor William Thomas suggested encouraging homeowners -- particularly those in rural areas -- to wire their homes for a back-up generator. He said that process only costs about $100.
LOL.
Sure, you can _wire_ it for $100. Last time I saw a transfer switch in Home Depot, it was $400. -- derek

No, dear boy, the Supreme Court did not "enact" Roe v Wade.
At the Federal level, he congress enacts the laws, the president signs them into law, the courts apply them unless there is a question as to their constitutionality.
At the State level, various state legislators enact State Laws or Statutes that are controlling of our lives until or unless deemed "unconstitutional.
Such was the case that led to the Supreme Court decision in 1973. The state of Texas said procuring or attempting to procure an abortion was a crime in their state "except on medical advice for the purpose of saving the mother's life."
The U.S. Supreme Court Ruled the statute unconstitutional.
A pregnant single woman (Roe) brought a class action challenging the constitutionality of the Texas criminal abortion laws, which proscribe procuring or attempting an abortion except on medical advice for the purpose of saving the mother's life.
State criminal abortion laws, like those involved here, that except from criminality only a life-saving procedure on the mother's behalf without regard to the stage of her pregnancy and other interests involved violate the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, which protects against state action the right to privacy, including a woman's qualified right to terminate her pregnancy.
(a) For the stage prior to approximately the end of the first trimester, the abortion decision and its effectuation must be left to the medical judgment of the pregnant woman's attending physician. Pp. 163, 164.
(b) For the stage subsequent to approximately the end of the first trimester, the State, in promoting its interest in the health of the mother, may, if it chooses, regulate the abortion procedure in ways that are reasonably related to maternal health. Pp. 163, 164.
(c) For the stage subsequent to viability the State, in promoting its interest in the potentiality of human life, may, if it chooses, regulate, and even proscribe, abortion except where necessary, in appropriate medical judgment, for the preservation of the life or health of the mother. Pp. 163-164; 164-165.
4. The State may define the term "physician" to mean only a physician currently licensed by the State, and may proscribe any abortion by a person who is not a physician as so defined. P. 165.
5. It is unnecessary to decide the injunctive relief issue since the Texas authorities will doubtless fully recognize the Court's ruling that the Texas criminal abortion statutes are unconstitutional. P. 166
Our nation is an odd mix of Puritan & Libertarian Ethics. Some of the laws supported early on by the former just did not stand constitutional muster as our society matured. We used to think it perfectly legal to own human beings. Not White, Aglo Saxon human beings, to be sure.
"Johnny" wrote in message

"Gooey TARBALLS" wrote in message "Roe VS. Wade has caused these excessive cost plans."
Wow!, Ho Boy! How did we get to Roe vs. Wade?
The Supreme Court enacted it 1973, which was NOT one of their delegated responsibilities in the Constitution.
And how does allowing a woman to choose to carry her pregnancy to term add to the burden of the school system when the power is out?
You didn't read the remainder of my post?
Sorry, off topic - but I just had to take note.

Johnny wrote:

That would be much easier. The problem is the number of single moms who are working who need the schools running as day care centers. Roe V Wade has caused these excessive cost plans.

Please tell me that was sarcasm. Whatever you think of Roe vs. Wade, the decision your supreme court made there hasn't _increased_ the number of single moms. -- derek

BobG wrote:

Usually the schools are used for storm shelters during hurricanes in Florida down here, so having some aux power seems like a good idea.

Agreed. Any municipality large enough to have plans for emergency shelters will tend to use schools. Still, when they're forced to use them as shelters, they usually have to cancel school, anyway. -- derek

Some years ago a small town in the central Texas area passed an ordanance that required ALL utility lines be put underground.
The idea was to make the town cleaner and more retro looking.
I am sure after this there has been few power outages from storms since all cables are underground now
"lkgeo1" wrote in message

New laws, ideas sought for future power outages
By CHRISTINE MARGIOTTA, cmargiotta@poststar.com
Updated: 3/9/2006 10:10:32 PM

The windstorm that knocked out power for thousands on Feb. 17 exposed local response flaws that elected officials will now try to fix with better communication -- and new legislation.
Equipping all local schools with generators, helping residents wire their homes for back-up power and using hospital discharge forms to find people with critical electricity needs were some ideas officials from six northern New York counties discussed Thursday when they met with National Grid management to brainstorm ways of better preparing for future power outages.
Government leaders from Warren, Washington, Saratoga, Essex, Hamilton and Clinton counties also noted a marked breakdown in communication, seemingly caused by a lack of frequent updates from National Grid.
Company managers said Thursday that emergency services crews and government leaders were updated every four to six hours on the windstorm's aftermath and the restoration of power.
But the lack of power shut down television and telephone service for 244,000 statewide, making local shelter information difficult to find. Setting up the shelters proved overwhelming for the Red Cross once word began to spread of the storm's severity.
"We had 10 requests in a half hour for shelters from Malta to Ticonderoga," said Eileen Reardon, Executive Director of the Red Cross' Adirondack/Saratoga chapter.
Washington County officials said much of the Red Cross' and the state Emergency Management Office's resources were depleted by the time they called for help.
"Maybe the old-fashioned phone tree would have worked better," said Sen. Elizabeth Little, R-Queensbury. She and others agreed to encourage people to invest in battery-powered radios to receive quicker outage updates and shelter information in the future.
Little and Assemblywoman Teresa Sayward, R-Willsboro, vowed Thursday to begin drafting a new state law that would free emergency services workers from liability while responding to the aftermath of a widespread disaster, such as the windstorm. Currently, firefighters are protected by law only if an official state of emergency has been declared, they explained.
Harry Gutheil, chairman of the Saratoga County Board of Supervisors, was the first to suggest the new legislation at Thursday's meeting, saying many firefighters feared they'd be held responsible if the generators they dispensed didn't work properly or damaged a home.
"Fire departments are hesitant to power up people with generators because they're concerned about the liability they'd face," said Essex County Emergency Services Coordinator Raymond Thatcher.
Johnsburg Town Supervisor William Thomas suggested encouraging homeowners -- particularly those in rural areas -- to wire their homes for a back-up generator. He said that process only costs about $100.
Thomas also suggested giving each school in the area generators, so the buildings could be used for makeshift shelters if needed.
Little suggested including a clause on hospital discharge forms that gives patients the option of forwarding their addresses to National Grid to quicken the process of finding residents in need of power for life-saving oxygen or kidney dialysis machines. Laura Stebbins of Glens Falls Hospital indicated such a move would not violate patient confidentiality laws.
The drafting process for the proposed legislation will begin Monday, Little said.
http://www.poststar.com/story.asp?storyid=213771

"Gooey TARBALLS" wrote in message

No, dear boy, the Supreme Court did not "enact" Roe v Wade.

Sorry that you are guilty and are trying to mount a defense. Your anti-freedom types are always exposing yourselves by resisting that which you can not defeat.

At the Federal level, he congress enacts the laws, the president signs them into law, the courts apply them unless there is a question as to their constitutionality.

The Courts do not have the Authority to overturn representative acts which are signed into law in the USA. Can't you remember how Slavery ended? It wasn't by a court action. It was done by representative authority. And, when did you forget Marbury vs Madison?

At the State level, various state legislators enact State Laws or Statutes that are controlling of our lives until or unless deemed "unconstitutional.

You mentioned one of the problems there. They are not supposed to be controlling our lives are they? They are supposed to be controlling that which harms our lives so that we do not suffer as a nation. The rest of your post was overly verbose.