Question about home appliances

I am not sure about whether this is the right place to post this question but can anyone tell me WHY our current Amana (Maytag) and all the other American Refrigerators use at least 9 amps of power compared to a new one we purchased yesterday by LG that uses 3.4 amps
They are the same capacity - the only difference is where the manufacturer ias based.
LG is Taiwanese and the others pretty much American
I think the Kyoto accord has something to do with this - LG have spent money in developing more economical stuff whereas the US companies rest on their laurels
Seems to be the same for cars too !
I guess that is why the US manufacturers of energy consuming products are having such a hard time
ALSO - does anyone have any REALISTIC idea of what a standard 55 gallon water heater will use monthly for power in kilowatts
Granted, the yellow sticker says one thing but I can't believe that for a second
David

--
David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404 Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Cell: 912 447 6622 X252 Fax: 912 201 0402 Email: dbturner@icusc.com Web: http://www.islandco.com ===================================== All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions of sale. These should be read before ordering. http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html

David Turner, Island Computers US Corp wrote:

ALSO - does anyone have any REALISTIC idea of what a standard 55 gallon water heater will use monthly for power in kilowatts
Granted, the yellow sticker says one thing but I can't believe that for a second

Well, an electric water heater uses a pretty predictable amount of energy for the amount of water used. Check out the Energy Star website for the rules on how it's actually calculated. I don't know about water heaters, but when researching washers, I found the figures are based on 392 loads per year - no matter how large the capacity. Water heaters would presumably be based on 'x' gallons per year, and you should be able to calculate your actual usage pretty easily. The only other variables would be the temperature of water coming in - municipal water supplies tend to run at pretty much the same temperature, due to being buried just below the expected frost line - and the thermostat setting you use. Again, the rating method will be based on a given thermostat setting. -- derek

"David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" wrote:

I am not sure about whether this is the right place to post this question but can anyone tell me WHY our current Amana (Maytag) and all the other American Refrigerators use at least 9 amps of power compared to a new one we purchased yesterday by LG that uses 3.4 amps

Power isn't used continuously in a refrigerator. So comparing amps to amps doesn't convert to total KWH per month. However, smaller amp units are better for off-grid where a small inverter is used. There is also a slight possibility that one company is measuring start-up amps and the other running amps.

They are the same capacity - the only difference is where the manufacturer ias based.
LG is Taiwanese and the others pretty much American
I think the Kyoto accord has something to do with this - LG have spent money in developing more economical stuff whereas the US companies rest on their laurels
Seems to be the same for cars too !
I guess that is why the US manufacturers of energy consuming products are having such a hard time

This isn't the case with refrigerators. The U.S. government created an incentive for refrigerator makers back in the late 1980s to come up with more energy-efficient designs. They have. I have a GE refrigerator that replaced my old but working pre-1985 unit of a smaller size. The new one saves me a measured $25 per month on my power bill and uses an estimated 613 kwh per year, including making ice. At 10 cents/kwh that is about $61. Our electricity costs more, but we don't use much ice, so that sounds about right.

ALSO - does anyone have any REALISTIC idea of what a standard 55 gallon water heater will use monthly for power in kilowatts
Granted, the yellow sticker says one thing but I can't believe that for a second

Depends on your use. As a rough starting figure, estimate $1 every time you take a tank of cold water and make it hot. If your incoming water is very cold, you'll need to add to that figure. If you have the temperature set at more than 130 F you'll have to add to it.
1 BTU raises 1 lb of water 1 degree F There are about 8 lbs in a gallon of water. (A pint's a pound, the world around, and there are 8 pints in a gallon.) 1 KWH = 3412 BTU The price of electricity is on your bill. You can do the math yourself. Conversion from electrical to heat energy is effectively 1 to 1, and losses through poor insulation are minimal. There can be as much or more loss through uninsulated hot water pipes than the tank.
BTW, 55 gallon water heater? common sizes are 30, 40, 50 and 80 gallons. Steel drums are often 55 gallon.
PS, I did not do extensive research or rely on certified scientific testing to verify that one BTU raises 1 lb of water 1 degree F, or that a pint (16 oz) of water is a pound. You may find that another poster will remove his cold and calculating cranium from his nice warm rectum just long enough to dispute my observations. Welcome to usenet.

Harry Chickpea wrote:

There are about 8 lbs in a gallon of water. (A pint's a pound, the world around, and there are 8 pints in a gallon.)

Argh! That's SOOO Americo-centric. Name one _other_ place in the world where a pint is a pound... For most of us, a pint was 20oz.

PS, I did not do extensive research or rely on certified scientific testing to verify that one BTU raises 1 lb of water 1 degree F, or that a pint (16 oz) of water is a pound.

It depends on the temperature :-)

You may find that another poster will remove his cold and calculating cranium from his nice warm rectum just long enough to dispute my observations. Welcome to usenet.

<raspberry/> -- derek

David Turner, Island Computers US Corp wrote:

I am not sure about whether this is the right place to post this question but can anyone tell me WHY our current Amana (Maytag) and all the other American Refrigerators use at least 9 amps of power compared to a new one we purchased yesterday by LG that uses 3.4 amps
They are the same capacity - the only difference is where the manufacturer ias based.
LG is Taiwanese and the others pretty much American
I think the Kyoto accord has something to do with this - LG have spent money in developing more economical stuff whereas the US companies rest on their laurels
Seems to be the same for cars too !
I guess that is why the US manufacturers of energy consuming products are having such a hard time
ALSO - does anyone have any REALISTIC idea of what a standard 55 gallon water heater will use monthly for power in kilowatts
Granted, the yellow sticker says one thing but I can't believe that for a second
David

Thats a lot of power either way. IIRC one I bought, the only one I remember the exact rating for, had a 65w compressor, which translates to than 0.25A @ 240v plus something for the <1 pf. Older units have been upto 250w, but never anywhere near 3.4x110 or 9x110 VA!
Its true that its the power x ontime that counts, but the power rating still tells the story. Compressors are sized so they can keep things cold enough on the hottest expected day, companies wont put an unnecessarily large compressor in there. 9A x 110v is very heavy use for a fridge freezer.
NT

Derek Broughton wrote:

Harry Chickpea wrote:
There are about 8 lbs in a gallon of water. (A pint's a pound, the world around, and there are 8 pints in a gallon.)
Argh! That's SOOO Americo-centric. Name one _other_ place in the world where a pint is a pound... For most of us, a pint was 20oz.

Actually it was England that came up with that until they switched to imperial measurements in 1826 ....
Until then the English Pint was 16oz. Must have been beer drinker that forced the change :-)

-- Steve Spence Dir., Green Trust, http://www.green-trust.org Contributing Editor, http://www.off-grid.net http://www.rebelwolf.com/essn.html

"Harry Chickpea" wrote in message

"David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" wrote:
I am not sure about whether this is the right place to post this question
BTW, 55 gallon water heater? common sizes are 30, 40, 50 and 80 gallons. Steel drums are often 55 gallon.

Yep..I bought a used 55 gal WH about 5 months ago for my biodiesel venture. Has one big heating element, 5500 watts I think.

PS, I did not do extensive research or rely on certified scientific testing to verify that one BTU raises 1 lb of water 1 degree F, or that a pint (16 oz) of water is a pound. You may find that another poster will remove his cold and calculating cranium from his nice warm rectum just long enough to dispute my observations. Welcome to usenet.

That's what I thought !
In Savannah GA where I be at, the electricity is just over 13c/KW. One of the highest rates in the USA (and no doubt the world) My parents in the UK pay about 9.8C/kw at current exchange rates. Their bill (excl. Natural Gas) is about $40/month
Our average electric bill in a three bedroom house in Winter was about $240 and summer time about $340 This is why I am looking at loads of different ways to save
So far it's down below $170 for the winter - summer is going to be interesting
Closed-cell foam installed in roof rafters (completely sealed attic now)
Turned off circulating pump for water and one of the heaters (used to have 2 water heaters in parallel on circulating system - special plumber (moron) designed this - already saving big time from this
Special thermal/UV tint put in windows
Will see what it is for February !

--
David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404 Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Cell: 912 447 6622 X252 Fax: 912 201 0402 Email: dbturner@icusc.com Web: http://www.islandco.com ===================================== All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions of sale. These should be read before ordering. http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html
wrote in message

David Turner, Island Computers US Corp wrote:
I am not sure about whether this is the right place to post this question but can anyone tell me WHY our current Amana (Maytag) and all the other American Refrigerators use at least 9 amps of power compared to a new one we purchased yesterday by LG that uses 3.4 amps
They are the same capacity - the only difference is where the manufacturer ias based.
LG is Taiwanese and the others pretty much American
I think the Kyoto accord has something to do with this - LG have spent money in developing more economical stuff whereas the US companies rest on their laurels
Seems to be the same for cars too !
I guess that is why the US manufacturers of energy consuming products are having such a hard time
ALSO - does anyone have any REALISTIC idea of what a standard 55 gallon water heater will use monthly for power in kilowatts
Granted, the yellow sticker says one thing but I can't believe that for a second
David
Thats a lot of power either way. IIRC one I bought, the only one I remember the exact rating for, had a 65w compressor, which translates to than 0.25A @ 240v plus something for the <1 pf. Older units have been upto 250w, but never anywhere near 3.4x110 or 9x110 VA!
Its true that its the power x ontime that counts, but the power rating still tells the story. Compressors are sized so they can keep things cold enough on the hottest expected day, companies wont put an unnecessarily large compressor in there. 9A x 110v is very heavy use for a fridge freezer.
NT

I am a Brit but I live in the USA
I never could understand why in the UK
1 Pound = 16oz Roman 1 Stone = 14Lbs Probably same BS roman outdated measurement 1 Gallon = 160 fl.oz Same Again 1 Pint = 20 fl. oz Same again
Hell, let's bring back cubits too !
The US system, though still using a quasi-imperial system, makes a lot more sense purely based on the pound to pint system
1 Fluid ounce of water weighs one ounce in "real" weight.
So.....
Still, realistically, even though a french-imposed system, the meter, kilometer, kilogram, gram , liter all make a lot more sense
Just take your post 1998 car to pieces - the Auto industry knows...
My 2c of uselessness
DT


--
David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404 Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Cell: 912 447 6622 X252 Fax: 912 201 0402 Email: dbturner@icusc.com Web: http://www.islandco.com ===================================== All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions of sale. These should be read before ordering. http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html
"David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" wrote in message

That's what I thought !
In Savannah GA where I be at, the electricity is just over 13c/KW. One of the highest rates in the USA (and no doubt the world) My parents in the UK pay about 9.8C/kw at current exchange rates. Their bill (excl. Natural Gas) is about $40/month
Our average electric bill in a three bedroom house in Winter was about $240 and summer time about $340 This is why I am looking at loads of different ways to save
So far it's down below $170 for the winter - summer is going to be interesting
Closed-cell foam installed in roof rafters (completely sealed attic now)
Turned off circulating pump for water and one of the heaters (used to have 2 water heaters in parallel on circulating system - special plumber (moron) designed this - already saving big time from this
Special thermal/UV tint put in windows
Will see what it is for February !

--
David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404 Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Cell: 912 447 6622 X252 Fax: 912 201 0402 Email: dbturner@icusc.com Web: http://www.islandco.com ===================================== All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions of sale. These should be read before ordering. http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html
meow2222@care2.com> wrote in message David Turner, Island Computers US Corp wrote:
I am not sure about whether this is the right place to post this question but can anyone tell me WHY our current Amana (Maytag) and all the other American Refrigerators use at least 9 amps of power compared to a new one we purchased yesterday by LG that uses 3.4 amps
They are the same capacity - the only difference is where the manufacturer ias based.
LG is Taiwanese and the others pretty much American
I think the Kyoto accord has something to do with this - LG have spent money in developing more economical stuff whereas the US companies rest on their laurels
Seems to be the same for cars too !
I guess that is why the US manufacturers of energy consuming products are having such a hard time
ALSO - does anyone have any REALISTIC idea of what a standard 55 gallon water heater will use monthly for power in kilowatts
Granted, the yellow sticker says one thing but I can't believe that for a second
David
Thats a lot of power either way. IIRC one I bought, the only one I remember the exact rating for, had a 65w compressor, which translates to than 0.25A @ 240v plus something for the <1 pf. Older units have been upto 250w, but never anywhere near 3.4x110 or 9x110 VA!
Its true that its the power x ontime that counts, but the power rating still tells the story. Compressors are sized so they can keep things cold enough on the hottest expected day, companies wont put an unnecessarily large compressor in there. 9A x 110v is very heavy use for a fridge freezer.
NT

Still A x V = W/1000 = KW
This whole BS about a fridge using $61 per year is total and utter BS
If it is in a 60F/17C house and never opened for a year, assuming no crud is sucked into the compressor vents, and that the fridge is full, then maybe
Now the real world - kids adults cleaning fridge getting drinks, stuffing the shopping in there.
$61 - makes me chuckle
More likely about $20-30/month when used a lot
My old Amana/Maytag Fridge/Freezer runs 9.4A x 110V = 1.034KWhour = 13.4C
It probably runs 6 hours a day = 24/mth

--
David B Turner Island Computers US Corp 2700 Gregory St, Suite 180 Savannah GA 31404 Tel: 912 447 6622 X201 Cell: 912 447 6622 X252 Fax: 912 201 0402 Email: dbturner@icusc.com Web: http://www.islandco.com ===================================== All orders are subject to the following terms and conditions of sale. These should be read before ordering. http://www.islandco.com/warranty.html
"Harry Chickpea" wrote in message

"David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" wrote:
I am not sure about whether this is the right place to post this question but can anyone tell me WHY our current Amana (Maytag) and all the other American Refrigerators use at least 9 amps of power compared to a new one we purchased yesterday by LG that uses 3.4 amps
Power isn't used continuously in a refrigerator. So comparing amps to amps doesn't convert to total KWH per month. However, smaller amp units are better for off-grid where a small inverter is used. There is also a slight possibility that one company is measuring start-up amps and the other running amps.
They are the same capacity - the only difference is where the manufacturer ias based.
LG is Taiwanese and the others pretty much American
I think the Kyoto accord has something to do with this - LG have spent money in developing more economical stuff whereas the US companies rest on their laurels
Seems to be the same for cars too !
I guess that is why the US manufacturers of energy consuming products are having such a hard time
This isn't the case with refrigerators. The U.S. government created an incentive for refrigerator makers back in the late 1980s to come up with more energy-efficient designs. They have. I have a GE refrigerator that replaced my old but working pre-1985 unit of a smaller size. The new one saves me a measured $25 per month on my power bill and uses an estimated 613 kwh per year, including making ice. At 10 cents/kwh that is about $61. Our electricity costs more, but we don't use much ice, so that sounds about right.
ALSO - does anyone have any REALISTIC idea of what a standard 55 gallon water heater will use monthly for power in kilowatts
Granted, the yellow sticker says one thing but I can't believe that for a second
Depends on your use. As a rough starting figure, estimate $1 every time you take a tank of cold water and make it hot. If your incoming water is very cold, you'll need to add to that figure. If you have the temperature set at more than 130 F you'll have to add to it.
1 BTU raises 1 lb of water 1 degree F There are about 8 lbs in a gallon of water. (A pint's a pound, the world around, and there are 8 pints in a gallon.) 1 KWH = 3412 BTU The price of electricity is on your bill. You can do the math yourself. Conversion from electrical to heat energy is effectively 1 to 1, and losses through poor insulation are minimal. There can be as much or more loss through uninsulated hot water pipes than the tank.
BTW, 55 gallon water heater? common sizes are 30, 40, 50 and 80 gallons. Steel drums are often 55 gallon.
PS, I did not do extensive research or rely on certified scientific testing to verify that one BTU raises 1 lb of water 1 degree F, or that a pint (16 oz) of water is a pound. You may find that another poster will remove his cold and calculating cranium from his nice warm rectum just long enough to dispute my observations. Welcome to usenet.

When I shopped for a new frige I looked for the most energy efficient at Energy Star. Sears 19.5 was the most efficient costing apx 3.5$ a month and pulling only 110 watts running. All new friges are more efficient as of 01 and 02 mandates. All old friges are power hogs. Shop by the yellow Energy Guide label and online at Energy Star. European stuff is no better in efficiency. Your 9am figure I hope is startup, or you likely have tested it with the defrost heater on. A new large unit should pull no more than 2-300 watts.

On Wed, 1 Mar 2006 14:23:06 -0500, "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" wrote:

This whole BS about a fridge using $61 per year is total and utter BS

Nope. My 7 year old Amana 22 cu.ft. fridge/freezer uses about 450 kWh per year. At 10 cents a kWhr, that's $45 per year.

More likely about $20-30/month when used a lot

An old side-by side with an ice maker might use 4 kWh per day. If it cost $25 a month to run, then energy cost would need to be 21 cents per kWh. Probably true of lots of folks in California.

My old Amana/Maytag Fridge/Freezer runs 9.4A x 110V = 1.034KWhour = 13.4C

How old? More modern versions are more like 200W except for short bursts at startup and intermittent defrost sessions.

It probably runs 6 hours a day = 24/mth

Probably? Get a KillaWatt and report back. Here's a good price http://tinyurl.com/g2gug
Wayne

In "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" writes:

Still A x V = W/1000 = KW
This whole BS about a fridge using $61 per year is total and utter BS

sez you

If it is in a 60F/17C house and never opened for a year, assuming no crud is sucked into the compressor vents, and that the fridge is full, then maybe
Now the real world - kids adults cleaning fridge getting drinks, stuffing the shopping in there.

My own unit, a frost free modest sized one, measures out at about 25 kw-hr/month.
That's roughly 300 kw-hr/yr. Which, at NYC's $0.20 (20 cents) per kw-hr, is $60. Other parts fo the country would be less.
Oh, and while my refrigerator is one of the better ones efficiency wise, you can reduce your power use significantly by going to a manual-defrost one.
ANd if only someone would market a decent chest-type refrigerator, sigh...
(btw, I don't have the yellow EPA tag with me, but their number was, indded, pretty close in usage to what I measured. Of course their kw-hr cost rate was much lower...)

More likely about $20-30/month when used a lot

SUre, if you use a huge one that's poorly insulated. That's your decision.

Power isn't used continuously in a refrigerator. So comparing amps to

Mine is about a 1/3rd duty cycle.
-- _____________________________________________________ Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key dannyb@panix.com [to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

wmbjk wrote:

On Wed, 1 Mar 2006 14:23:06 -0500, "David Turner, Island Computers US Corp" wrote:
This whole BS about a fridge using $61 per year is total and utter BS
Nope. My 7 year old Amana 22 cu.ft. fridge/freezer uses about 450 kWh per year. At 10 cents a kWhr, that's $45 per year.

Thanks. I was beginning to wonder if this group had gone nuts. I'm tired of the mean spirited and ill-considered responses that some people seem determined to think are acceptable on usenet, and I'm glad that others don't buy into that style.

David Turner, Island Computers US Corp wrote:

That's what I thought !
In Savannah GA where I be at, the electricity is just over 13c/KW. One of the highest rates in the USA (and no doubt the world) My parents in the UK pay about 9.8C/kw at current exchange rates. Their bill (excl. Natural Gas) is about $40/month

9.8 pence per unit, which is about 19c in US money. If they'd found daytime leccy at .8c/kWh, everyone would want to know where.
If you want to save on fridge run costs, you could attach polystyrene foam to the doors and sides (assuming it has a heat exchanger on the back, not built into the side). Be sure to use the stuff that wont soak up condensed water vapour, as most expanded poly will.
It might also reduce energy use to add a clear plastic flap to the front of each shelf, so less heat moves in when its opened. However whether this would save enough to be worth walking across the kitchen for I dont know.
NT